UntoHim's Blog

[UntoHim]

Resurrection Day Musings by a Thankful Man

Out of billions to come and go
why should I be the one to know
Who is this man you’re mindful of
and visit with such grace and love
So I shall wonder at your choice
and listen for that still small voice
But always eyes upon the cross
and only glory in that loss
For I am but one breath away
then wait for resurrection day

“Resurrection Day”….It seems so long to say it this way. I have no problem with just using “Easter”. After all, the days of the week are all derived from the names of gods and planets, and I don’t see a lot of people throwing religious fits over this.(and good luck with our present congress changing Sunday to The Lords Day)

I like what this “saint” had to say:
The Christian saint Jerome (d. 420) commented: "If it is called the day of the sun by the pagans, we willingly accept this name, for on this day the Light of the world arose, on this day the Sun of Justice shone forth."
Amen to that brudder Jerry! What’s that saying – when the world gives you lemons just make lemonade. We need more common sense like this among God’s people for sure.

Back to being thankful.
Growing up in a nominally Christian home, I knew that we SHOULD be thankful. Jesus loves me this I know (never read the bible but I heard that it’s in there…so) Yes, thankful for food on the plate and a roof over my head. Hey, what else was there to be thankful for?

One Easter Sunday (the first one after I got saved and had a real desire to go to a evangelical worship service and really thank the Lord and remember His death and resurrection.) I talked my parents into letting me use the family car (only one at that time) to go to the early service. They said so long as I was back by 9 or so, my dad was singing in the choir at their “church” (so-called) and he had to be there early. I don’t remember if it was a matter of the service going much longer or I just got caught up in the glorious worship and stayed for both early services, but by the time I got home my parents were all dressed up and had been waiting for me – I was over one hour late. They were furious. Happy Easter.

“Thanks Lord”. “This is the thanks I get”. “Oh well, it’s the thought that counts, right Lord?” That was over 30 Easters ago.

I don’t know all the history behind why Nee (then Lee of course) were so “anti” Christian Holidays. I guess it was a Brethren thing? I’m sure their being Chinese had something to do with it too. After a few years in the LC it didn’t bother me anymore. Just one more thing to despise and mock other Christians about. Besides, those colored eggs always stained my hands, and what good are bunny rabbits anyway (lessen yur from dem dar places wer dey eatem) Actually I had rabbit at this brothers house (he raised them) and it wasn't half bad - tasted like chicken.

Back to being thankful.
It seemed that the only thing we got to thank God for in the Local Church was that “He was the triune God who was processed so that He could get into our human spirit so that we could become God in life and nature for the expression of the triune God to fulfill His eternal purpose in the tripartite man (take breath here) so that we could be His ultimate expression and mingling in the New Jerusalem which is the ultimate expression of God mingled with His redeemed and transformed creation”….

Now, many years later I realize that what God wants us to be thankful for is the very same thing I went to thank Him for all those Easters ago. His death and resurrection. Without them we are dead in our sins. Without them all we have is just a religion. He had to be the Lamb before He was the Lion. “For the joy set before Him”.

As I muse on His Sacrifice
and the pain unknown endured
Oh then the Father turned His face
our Passover now ensured
Only begotten of The Great I Am
what sacrifice by this Man
For joy He endured the cross
and how worthy is the Lamb!

To me it’s a mystery
what he did for us at Calvary
Hung there cursed upon a tree
Pierced through and left to bleed
To me it’s still a mystery

The Word of God becomes flesh
and in such a lowly form
Tempted so and put to test
yet in all ways found without sin
More graceful words were never heard
He came to serve and not be served
Son of God and Son of Man
a Miracle come down to earth!

To me it’s a mystery
What he did for us at Calvary
Hung there cursed upon a tree
He took those stripes meant for me
To me it’s still a mystery

Surely He has borne our grief
and our sorrows swallowed up
We all went astray as sheep
He redeemed with unfailing love
Ever before me is my sin
still my Master calls me friend
My faith is almost perfect now
so I will look away to Him!

To me it’s a mystery
what he did for us at Calvary
Hung there cursed upon a tree
Shed precious blood for you and me
To me it’s still a mystery

To me it’s a mystery
what he did for us at Calvary
Hung there cursed upon a tree
was dead for days, but only three
Risen Christ for all to see!
Risen Christ for all to see!

-

[UntoHim]

Ruffled feathers, legends and such….
I’m probably going to ruffle a few Watchman Neer’s feathers here. Probably some of my own as well, for if only half of the Nee legend is only half as accurate as has been proclaimed, then he was surely ten times the man of God I could only hope to be. I mean that. Of course as an ex longtime LC member, I must say quite the opposite of Witness Lee. If only half of the Lee legend was only half as accurate as his followers proclaim, then we would not be looking at half of the colossal religious mess we see over there on La Palma Ave. More importantly, or should I say most importantly, neither would there be this seemingly endless stream of brokenness among some of the most precious and sincere of God’s people. And it wouldn’t be so bad if it was just a kind of “corporate” or institutional brokenness, but we now know that it has extended to the lives of many individuals, and even whole families. I shudder to think this is a fulfillment of an ancient warning in Exodus 20 “You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me”.

Information control and brokenness….
Back in the 70s and 80s the information control machine installed by Witness Lee prevented the average rank and file LC members from even knowing about (much less doing something about) this brokenness. There was gross sin and moral failure, even (if not especially) among the leaders. There was major dissension and dissolution, even (if not especially) among the leaders. Of course all these things are part and parcel of the human condition, and sadly they are indeed rather prevalent among God’s people. But the problem is that we Local Churchers were supposedly above the fray. By virtue of our “standing on the proper ground”, “loving the churchlife” and “living in the spirit” we were virtually guaranteed to be free of such human frailties - so of course any sighting of such mortal shortcomings was swept under the rug as a one-in-a-million aberration. Our consciences, and even common sense told us different, but both of these were being strongly overridden by a much, much stronger force.

The force was with us…but was the Watchman?
Just what kind of force, or spirit, or mindset, or whatever label one wants to use, could cause a very sizable group of Christian people to enter into such a fantasyland of dysfunction and denial? I know, I know… nobody was running around using the terms force, or spirit or mindset… there was a far more spiritual and noble title used – “The vision of the church”. “You’ve got to see this vision!” – “when you see this vision you are wrecked for anything else!” – “when you see this vision it will control and regulate you!” – “where there is no vision the people parish!” So was it really OUR vision? Did we ever stop to think that one cannot “inherit” the vision of another? Did we ever stop to think that we cannot go back in time and see just what Watchman Nee saw, anymore then we could go back in time and be riding the same horse that Saul of Tarsus was riding and be struck down by the same vision? Saul had his life-changing vision. Nee had his about 1900 years later. Saul became the apostle Paul and the vision he received motivated and empowered him to change his world. I don’t think it would be too much to say that Watchman Nee was motivated and empowered by a similar vision to change his beloved country of China.

Connecting with the disconnect…..
Over the years some have wondered aloud “what would Watchman Nee think of the Local Church today?”. I think it would depend on where on earth he was. I think he would be very happy to break bread in some tin-roofed housechurch in the slums of Shanghai, huddled together with a few frightened believers sharing their one lone bible and maybe a few ripped out pages of his Sit, Walk, Stand. I think he would feel connected. I must say that I think he would feel just as connected to the homogeneous masses of same-dressed, same-talking and same-minded trainees at the Full-Time Training. More later…..
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[UntoHim]

Wow, that was kind of harsh. Oh well, I guess I better elaborate just a bit on that last paragraph.

Let’s face it folks, all religion is man-made…except for one. The problem is that we Christians have gone and done it…we made a man-made religion out of the only religion that was not man-made! How’d we do that? Why’d we do that? Most importantly, can we undo what we have done? From what is publicly know, it seems that Watchman Nee made a really good effort at the undoing. Early 20th century China was, for the most part, a blank slate on which God, with the assistance of some godly human helpers (which is what I think He got in Nee) could possibly bring a nation back to the real thing. How glorious. What great hope there was. I dare not speak on behalf of God, but I can’t help but think He was hopeful. It seemed to be the right time. It seemed to be the right Country. Watchman Nee seemed to be the right man. No surprise that God’s enemy knew all these things as well. A whole Christian movement coming back in purity to true and accurate New Testament church life? Too good to be true I guess.

I’m sure there is much to glean from the “Little Flock” days of Nee and his followers. What I fear is that too much time has passed, and there are too few left who can point us back in the right direction. Almost all of those close followers of Nee have “served the purpose of God in their own generation” and have left us. Maybe it’s all for the best anyhow. Look what Witness Lee and his followers have done with what came out of Nee’s service to his generation and to his beloved China. The Local Church movement is at very best just a shell or a shadow of what Nee and his followers initiated so many years ago. Really all Witness Lee did is to make a man-made religion out a man-made movement that came pretty close. Now all that’s left is a bunch of yahoo’s running around over there in Anaheim making a man-made religion out of a man-made religion, which was only imitating a man-made movement that came pretty close. What’s the half-life of a man-made movement anyway? Anybody know?

Yes, I guess God knows what he is doing. Oh, speaking of disconnects…why do we Local Churchers (current, former and in between) have such a great tendency to dwell on the past. By the time that I “came into” the Local Church back in the mid 70’s, the unseemly pining and useless reminiscing of the glory days in Elden Hall was already running rampant. Many of the meetings were speckled with testimonies of how people were showing up to Elden 2 or 3 hours ahead of time – boy. and I thought I was quite the “consecrated” one coming 45 minutes early! Of course by the early 80s many of us schnooks who came in during the mid 70s were telling all the “new ones” about the glory days when we were working through the night building all those meeting halls in Orange County. I used to gloat about helping build “brother Lee’s house”. Wow! What a privilege! (UntoHim cynical?…say it ain’t so)

Opps, speaking of glory days, better get back to the point I was going to make about the stark contrast between the glory days of Nee’s Little Flock movement with what we have ended up with today over there on La Palma Ave in Anaheim. Emm…more later…

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[UntoHim]

Hi boys and girls. Sorry I haven’t participated in the forum like I should. I have run into a nasty streak of rather significant health issues which have kept me offline on a regular basis. I’m doing better lately and you can look for me to get many of this threads updated real soon. There are a couple of things I want you oldies but goodies out there to keep in your prayers and consideration.

One thing would be that a number of current LC members would come register and participate here in the discussions. It has been my experience and observation over the years that they will only do so if they feel safe, respected and honored. (don’t we all?) This does not mean that any erroneous and/or harmful teachings or practices need to be accepted, for some of us cannot do this for the sake of the truth. Of course not all (or most?) of the teachings and practices of the Local Church are erroneous or harmful, but we must be prepared and have a heart to engage and challenge when and where they need to be. The key here would be that, unlike unbelievers, we believers can engage and challenge each other with a heart of flesh and not with cold, stony hearts based upon the law or the powerless teachings and traditions of men. This is why the apologetics of the first and greatest Christian apologist, the apostle Paul, were so effectual and lasting. I imagine that he had just read Ezekiel 36 when he set to write to the Corinthians (2 Cor 3).
“Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh”…then the apostle wrote the following: “written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts” Paul engaged and challenged the error of the Corinthians not with a stony heart but with a heart of flesh. We have the results of this right before us in the form of the living and abiding Word of God. Thank you Lord Jesus.

Another thing would be the need for some to eventually take up the responsibility to assist in administering and moderating. Right now the low volume of activity does not require any assistance, but the Lord willing, it may in the future, so I want some of you to just keep it in the back of your mind. This includes you my dear Local Church brothers and sisters. This forum has been and always will be here for you to not only lurk, but also to participate in as well. By participation I do not mean simply posting your dissenting or countering viewpoints (though you are free to do so) – no, my hope has always been that some of you would take full advantage of a forum for dialogue between former AND current members by assisting in moderating some of the many boards (sub-forums). No doubt that some will interest you more then others, but that’s why I purchased this website and the forum software that allows for so many different and divergent boards. It’s about time ya’ll take advantage. Repeat! This forum is for current and active members of the Local Church. For announcements, encouragements, venting, discussions, debate, prophetic speaking (careful now) and now even for blogging.

Opps, this is actually a posting on my personal blog so I better shape up or ship out.

As I noted above, I have hit a streak of significant heath problems so I do covet your prayers. Up until about a year ago I never had any health problems. I would go years without having anything but a very minor cold. I think I had a mild flu maybe twice. What has made this all the more frustrating is that no doctor can figure out what is causing my near-catastrophic spikes in blood pressure. I just had a cardiac catheterization procedure where they can stick a tiny camera through your artery and look at your heart. They found no blockage or damage to the heart (they thought there might be since they found one of my ceratoid arteries over 75% blocked) I had a successful carotid endarterectomy back last year. So now all they call do is drug therapy. Anyway, I’ve been able to exercise a lot more lately so that is helping big time. Ok, enough about my health. Just wanted to let you know why I’ve made myself so scarce.

As I get back to “blogging” on a regular basis I wanted to repost something from earlier:
The force was with us…but was the Watchman?
Just what kind of force, or spirit, or mindset, or whatever label one wants to use, could cause a very sizable group of Christian people to enter into such a fantasyland of dysfunction and denial? I know, I know… nobody was running around using the terms force, or spirit or mindset… there was a far more spiritual and noble title used – “The vision of the church”. “You’ve got to see this vision!” – “when you see this vision you are wrecked for anything else!” – “when you see this vision it will control and regulate you!” – “where there is no vision the people parish!” So was it really OUR vision? Did we ever stop to think that one cannot “inherit” the vision of another? Did we ever stop to think that we cannot go back in time and see just what Watchman Nee saw, anymore then we could go back in time and be riding the same horse that Saul of Tarsus was riding and be struck down by the same vision? Saul had his life-changing vision. Nee had his about 1900 years later. Saul became the apostle Paul and the vision he received motivated and empowered him to change his world. I don’t think it would be too much to say that Watchman Nee was motivated and empowered by a similar vision to change his beloved country of China.

Owch! “fantasyland of dysfunction and denial”? Wow that was harsh! I must say that the further away I get from my Local Church experience the more I see the dysfunction and the denials that followed. At some point I think the best use of this blog (for me) will be to chronicle my spiritual journey since departing the Local Church. Of course I’m still on this journey as I write here today, but there has been a progression and I will try my best to share this with you all. There have been a number of “phases” (for lack of better word) to this journey. Good times, bad times, easy times, rough times, incredible experience of blessing and disappointing times of dryness. All the stuff that our Christian life is made of I guess. I suppose the only reason that any of you may be interested is our common LC heritage and how I may have gotten to where I am now. (wherever that is)

Getting back to the vision thing. To me this is one of the keys to a comprehensive, objective and truthful examination of all the good, bad and ugly in the Local Church of Witness Lee. Really and truly the “vision” was more then just a mission statement or anything like that. This vision instilled into us by Witness Lee was not called a “controlling vision” for nothing. Also, this vision was the end that justified so many of the means. Almost anything could be said or done so long as it could be linked to the vision. Still ringing in my little brain today is Witness Lee’s oft-made declaration of “if I’m going to be a man I have to be a Christian and if I’m going to be a Christian I have to be in the Lord’s Recovery”. Now the giver of this vision has been gone for over a decade and there is a rather sizable group of people running around trying to keep this man’s vision alive. It seems so sad to me now. Lee claimed that this vision was passed onto him from Watchman Nee. My question would be is it really possible to “pass on” a personal vision or calling to another person? Even IF this personal vision was from God it seems to be that it was from God to you, and you alone. Any supposed “corporate” vision for the church at large should have strong (near literal) confirmation in the Word of God. Many, if not most, of the teachings and practices and corporate vision established by Witness Lee do not have such confirmation in the Word of God.

[aron]

Did we ever stop to think that one cannot “inherit” the vision of another?
... This vision instilled into us by Witness Lee was not called a “controlling vision” for nothing. Also, this vision was the end that justified so many of the means. Almost anything could be said or done so long as it could be linked to the vision.

Nice. This links up with my idea of "extra-local" visions, movements, callings, whathaveyou, pushing us beyond our commission, which is to love our neighbor (in our local assembly).

Instead we end up trampling our neighbor in pursuit of our vision, which as you rightly point out, is just a directive given to us by Lee's lieutenants.

[Terry]

Getting back to the vision thing. To me this is one of the keys to a comprehensive, objective and truthful examination of all the good, bad and ugly in the Local Church of Witness Lee. Really and truly the “vision” was more then just a mission statement or anything like that. This vision instilled into us by Witness Lee was not called a “controlling vision” for nothing. Also, this vision was the end that justified so many of the means. Almost anything could be said or done so long as it could be linked to the vision. Still ringing in my little brain today is Witness Lee’s oft-made declaration of “if I’m going to be a man I have to be a Christian and if I’m going to be a Christian I have to be in the Lord’s Recovery”.

Ya know, Unto in some ways I still have the same vision; Christ and the church. The church is not something you can organize or wrap your hands around. It's simply organic. Just today I marveled when reading 1 Corinthians chapter 12. I was wowed, astounded, touched, etc. This is my vision of the church.

Grace be with you,

Terry

[UntoHim]

"Work out your own salvation"
Man oh man, I couldn't do it the first time, so what makes God think that I've got any shot at it this time?
I must be missing something. Hey, maybe it's the same thing I was missing the first time - A Savior.
"with fear and trembling"? - darn right with fear and trembling! I Had fear and trembling the first time, why shouldn't I have it now?
Except the fear and trembling this time is not a fear of eternal damnation - this time the fear and trembling is about displeasing the Savior. Fear of not hearing "well done good and faithful servant". Trembling at the possibility of Him saying something like "well, I guess I did know you, but not all that well". No worries any more about a thousand years of outer darkness with the gnashing of teeth and such (no worries, I may be a street cleaner or a door keeper or work at Mickey Ds, but I will be in the House of My God for the Millennium)

Nonetheless, getting back to the point at hand - how can I work out my own salvation today - tonight - right now - right here?
Yes I need a Savior. More then ever I need a Savior. Am I any less acceptable to Him tonight then I was when I came crawling and crying in repentance that day? I think not. In fact, I know not. The bad news is that there is no way I am any less of a sinner - the good news is that there is no way He is any less of a Savior.

Savior mine
I come to your awesome presence now
I believe,
still not knowing every why or how
With my mind set on the things above
I’m turning back to my first love for all time
Savior mine
Oh Savior mine
Your mercy as the sands of the sea
your rod and staff they comfort me every time
Savior mine

Savior mine
I come to the living word for light
For I know,
I live this life by faith not by sight
So I would never leave your side
but always and forever abide in the Vine
Savior mine
Oh Savior mine
Your Spirit reminds of words you said
and the price you paid there in the bread and the wine
Savior mine

Savior mine
I come to your holy presence now
Through the veil,
torn asunder right here where I bow
Now nothing between my God and me
before the Father the Righteous pleads, how divine!
Savior mine
Oh Savior mine
Weak and weary from the sin I’ve known
I’m running back to the graceful throne where I find
Savior mine

Savior mine
Oh Savior mine
Savior mine
Your mercy as the sands of the sea
Your rod and staff they comfort me every time
Savior mine