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08-05-2019 11:40 AM

Sons to Glory!

Re: The Divine and Mystical Realm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

Very little. They do talk about spending time with the Lord and confessing our sins, however, we can't change. I mean, we can't change our behavior. Only God can if we eat Jesus by calling on the Lord, pray reading, and going to to the meetings. So the message is don't try to change just eat Jesus.

Don't see much wrong with the statement that "we can't change." The business I'm in is actually about helping people change behaviors, habits, set & reach goals, etc. We provide them an agreed upon structure that helps them change behaviors over time. And they do change . . . at least it seems to a degree. But it's a tough slog at best, and without support people frequently go back to what they were doing before. So I would say they may change, at least superficially, but their real nature - not so much.

Now we also are very aware of people's strengths, so we look for changes that are inline with these inherent strengths. But when we're talking about who a person really is in nature, then I agree that only God can make those changes, and that is one of the big messages in the Bible, right? Man's heart is desperately wicked; the flesh is totally corrupted; no one seeks God; etc.

Now much of Christianity tries to perform the New Covenant in largely an outward way (which is not much different than what we try to do with clients in my business). But God promised, "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds." (Hebrews 10:16) He also says, "Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,' says the LORD" (Zech 4:6)

Now how you think God will exactly will go about doing this writing in us may be open to different interpretations . . . but it is by His Spirit and not by man's efforts. If you touch Him by praying, do that. If you touch Him by singing, do that. If you touch Him by reading His word, do that. Or by pray-reading, do that. Or getting with other believers who are enjoying Him, do that.

08-02-2019 01:39 PM

Jo S

Re: The Divine and Mystical Realm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio

They teach it is a change in thinking, a repudiation of the past way of life.

Interesting. The way you put it makes it actually sound like penance not repentance...

I would ask; what is the difference between the type of "repentance" you're describing and cognitive behavioral therapy?

Changing thought isn't something I believe the Local Churches lack knowledge in doing.

08-02-2019 01:28 PM

Ohio

Re: The Divine and Mystical Realm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jo S

What do the Local Churches teach about repentance?

They teach it is a change in thinking, a repudiation of the past way of life.

08-02-2019 01:26 PM

stillseekingtruth

Re: The Divine and Mystical Realm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jo S

What do the Local Churches teach about repentance?

Very little. They do talk about spending time with the Lord and confessing our sins, however, we can't change. I mean, we can't change our behavior. Only God can if we eat Jesus by calling on the Lord, pray reading, and going to to the meetings. So the message is don't try to change just eat Jesus.

08-02-2019 09:24 AM

Jo S

Re: The Divine and Mystical Realm

What do the Local Churches teach about repentance?

08-02-2019 09:12 AM

Raptor

Re: The Divine and Mystical Realm

Quote:

Originally Posted by WitnessLee

Yes there is a verse, (and the thought is present in many other verses too).

Romans 5:10: For if, when we were enemies of God, we were reconciled to Him through the death of His Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through His life!

God’s judicial redemption may be considered saved by being redeemed only - we were reconciled to Him through the death of His Son

but he still needs to be saved more by God’s organic salvation - how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through His life!

08-02-2019 08:15 AM

stillseekingtruth

Re: The Divine and Mystical Realm

Quote:

Originally Posted by UntoHim

So, does this led to the idea of full salvation? I can't find a verse in the bible that uses that term, but I know in Peter there is talk about growing. long for the pure milk of the word, that by it you may grow unto salvation. HOw do we grow unto salvation? Aren't we saved or not?

08-02-2019 07:30 AM

UntoHim

Re: The Divine and Mystical Realm

"One who has experienced God’s judicial redemption may be considered saved by being redeemed only, but he still needs to be saved more by God’s organic salvation in the accomplishing of God’s economy."(emphasis added)
Witness Lee
The Divine and Mystical Realm
@ministrybooks.org

This little snippet pretty much says it all. Only Witness Lee could try to get away with making such outrageous and absurd statements like "saved by being redeemed only" and "be saved more". Of course he didn't use any verses to back up such nonsense...because there aren't any. A little later Lee does go on to use more conventional language, but as far as I'm concerned, the damage to the hearts and minds of his followers is already done - Witness has convinced them that one can only enter into "The Divine and Mystical Realm" - by "accomplishing God's economy", which simply means following his person and his work (by submitting to his authority, and those whom his granted his authority, and following his personal ministry).

It should go without saying that if there is a genuine divine and mystical realm then it is painfully obvious that neither Witness Lee nor those who follow his person and work were in it. Maybe to put a finer point on all this, if Lee and his followers are those who live and minister within this so-called "divine and mystical realm", then I want nothing to do with it. Nor would I recommend any new believer or young person to enter into this realm. And if you are already in it by birth or by choice...Get Thee Out!
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08-02-2019 06:57 AM

stillseekingtruth

Re: The Divine and Mystical Realm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

Is the Divine and Mystical realm a real place that we can really be if we're 'in our spirit?'

Ummmmm.....

08-01-2019 07:00 PM

Nell

Re: The Divine and Mystical Realm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

Is the Divine and Mystical realm a real place that we can really be if we're 'in our spirit?'

What does the Bible say?

Nell

08-01-2019 04:53 PM

stillseekingtruth

The Divine and Mystical Realm

Is the Divine and Mystical realm a real place that we can really be if we're 'in our spirit?'

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