Quote:
Originally Posted by bearbear
I would agree with you that they are not the same place, much like how the state of Ohio and the United States are not identical; however, one exists within the other.
Paul was caught "up" to both the third heaven and "up" to paradise, suggesting they are in the same realm above, not below.
If paradise were still located in Hades, Paul would have gone "down" rather than "up."
Scripture consistently describes Hades as below, whereas the third heaven and paradise here are clearly depicted as above.
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There is no "up" or "down" in the actual translation of this Greek word "HARPAZO" in 2 Cor 12:2,4. Harpazo is also used in Acts 8.39 where Philip was "caught away." The only direction that can be inferred from this Greek word is "away."
"Harpazo" in I Thess 4.17 generally refers to the Rapture, and can be properly translated "caught up" because the verse actually states "
in the clouds in a meeting with the Lord in the air." 2 Cor 12.4, however, provides no other description of destination other than "
away into paradise."
bearbear, your metaphor of "
the state of Ohio and the United States are not identical; however, one exists within the other," actually can apply to Paradise and Hades not being identical, but one within the other. Luke's Gospel and Acts clearly locate Paradise within Hades. Luke 23.43 placed Jesus in Paradise with the believing Thief, whereas Acts 2.27, 31 says "
the Christ was not left in Hades."
Returning to your example, Hades would be likened to the country USA, whereas Paradise would be the state of Ohio. Paradise, called the "Bosom of Abraham," the blessed section of Hades, where all the justified believers are resting under the earth, and Hades being the general resting place for all the dead under the earth.
Note that Rev 5.13 identifies those under the earth praising the resurrected Lamb of God. The Fifth Seal in Rev 7.9 locates the praying Martyrs "under the altar" of the earth crying out for justice.