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Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah
Do you pray with your mind also? Would you be offended if I said you didn't? How about OBW? How about OBW's family that still meets with the LRC?
The question is you don't see where Mike is mocking. My response is "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". I consider it very much over the line if someone criticizes and complains about my prayer and my time with the Lord. I personally do not practice "pray reading" as described by OBW, not even when I was in the FTTT. No one ever pressured me, I just prayed quietly while others did all of that. But on the other hand I never criticized. I have heard one argument that in the LRC you have to adopt this practice or else you are not "one". Yet, this approach of attacking this practice is to me no different, just the other side of the pendulum.
In my experience the most vocal and energetic of this style of "pray reading" were those who were recent converts. Surely you remember the joy of your salvation. Maybe they are just expressing that and it takes a year or two to work its way out.
Ultimately, I have seen a lot that I would be critical of in Christians, particularly sin and the flesh. I think criticizing pray reading is not on my list. I have known many, many saints in the LRC that had been there for over 10 years and I can't think of any that stands out as being "mindless".
This thread is "combating LC arguments". Someone brought up pray reading and my response was to use RG's book as a place where you could meet and fellowship with this person. I feel that they would be open to the fellowship and it might help them to see that their practice, if it is the case, is mindless and not what was practiced by the saints of old. I stand by that advice.
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Hello dear brother ZNPaaneah,
Just some random comments on your post:
1) I like Ray Graver's book
"Lord . . . Thou Saidst". It may well be the best thing that LSM has ever published. As dear brother Ohio has pointed out, none of the examples from Scripture or from Church History support Witness Lee's style of "pray-reading". In Ray Graver's book, we see some very touching examples of dear brothers and sisters who incorporated the Scriptures into their prayers and who incorporated prayer into their reading of the Scriptures. NOWHERE is this book do we find anything like the "Shout-Reading" promoted by WL and LSM in their booklet entitled "Pray Reading the Word". WL's method is NOT supported by Scripture or by Church History.
2) If you think dear brother OBW was mocking in the example that he gave, please check out this word-for-word quotation from LSM's booklet entitled "Pray Reading the Word" (emphasis mine):
Quote:
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"We would not argue in a doctrinal way, but we must realize that there is no need for us to close our eyes when we pray. It is better for us to close our mind! For example, in pray-reading Galatians 2:20 simply look at the printed page, which says, “I am crucified with Christ.” Then with your eyes upon the Word and praying from deep within, say: “Praise the Lord, ‘I am crucified with Christ.’ Hallelujah! ‘Crucified with Christ.’ Amen! ‘I am.’ O Lord, ‘I am crucified.’ Praise the Lord! ‘Crucified with Christ.’ Amen! ‘I am crucified with ’ Hallelujah! Amen! ‘And it is no longer.’ Amen. ‘No longer.’ Amen. ‘I who live.’ O Lord. ‘I who live.’ Hallelujah! Amen! ‘But it is Christ who lives in me,’ etc.” Then perhaps you will turn to John 10:10 and read, “I have come that they may have life.” Then with your eyes still on the Bible you can pray: “‘I have come.’ Amen! ‘I have come.’ Hallelujah! ‘I have come that they may have life.’ Praise the Lord! ‘May have life.’ Hallelujah! ‘Life.’ Amen! ‘Life.’ O Lord, ‘Life.’” "
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From this quote, we can see that OBW was not far from the mark. If OBW was mocking, then LSM is mocking themselves in their own booklet on pray-reading.
3) I have practiced "Shout-Reading" (WL's and LSM's version of "pray-reading") with brothers and sisters all over North and South America in dozens of localities. I have encountered a few localities where LSM-style pray-reading is not promoted that much, but in the vast majority of localities the leading brothers want to be in lock-step with Anaheim and LSM-style pray-reading is very much promoted.
4) In my experience, it is the leading brothers and the old-timers who are most zealous for LSM-style pray-reading. Some new converts seem to like it, but most do not like it. If it was mostly new converts it would have died away by now. From what I have experienced in multiple localities, it is definitely the leading brothers and the old-timers from Eldon Hall who most zealously promote this practice.
5) I do not know about the FTTT, but LSM-style pray-reading was heavily promoted right from the start in the FTTA. About ten years ago I listened to all the audio tapes in the series "The Exercise and Practice of the God-Ordained Way" given by WL in the late 1980's to one of the original set of FTTA trainees in the United States. Before many of the messages, WL had the trainees pray-read the verses for that message. Interestingly, the trainees never seem to have gotten it right, and WL was constantly scolding their attempts at pray-reading. Even today, FTTA trainees practicee LSM-style pray-reading A LOT, multiple times a day. From what I have seen in localities that have received a "Full-Timer Team" to work on the local campus(es), the "Full-Timers" (former FTT trainees) do several things: they gradually dominate the "prophecying" meetings and, regardless of current practices in that locality, they strongly promote the practices of LSM-style pray-reading and calling on the Lord.
Just some random thoughts.