[OBW]

Originally Posted by Matt

I've heard many people say that they thought Witness Lee was repentant during the early years he was in the US (early 60's) about what had happened in Taiwan. As a result they claim that he was in a more blessed condition and even though he got off track later on, he was doing okay at that time.

If Lee was still up to his same ole' tricks during that window of time and there was no time in which 'fruits of repentance' were there would it make any difference in your mind?

What exactly would you consider to be 'concise evidence' of demonic influence for Lee? Give a hypothetical example.

Matt

To All,

While I think that pursuing this in terms of "demons" is a waste of time, the underlying question as to whether Lee was ever anything more than soft-peddling during the 60s and early 70s has always been a significant issue for me.

So acting in an evil manner has now been promoted to all-out demon possession?

Even if you can make a case, we have moved far from the topic, which was describing how the LC was responsible for the failings of their children.

The examples of demonic influence in the scripture, OT and NT, were much more than just doing badly. The whole of the Jewish rituals, especially those of the Pharisees, was corrupted from what God had ordained. Surely that was influenced by Satan.

Nell has said, “Do you think Satan himself, as God's sworn archenemy does his work himself, or do you think he has worker bees (demons) to do his work for him?” On one hand, I agree. But when Satan throws his fiery darts at us and we respond to act according to them, we do not suggest that we have become Satan possessed. Demons effectively do the same thing. I am not denying actual demon possession. But it is not the norm. People follow the suggestions too easily for Satan or his demons to need to actually possess us very often.

Even when Jesus addressed Peter by saying "get thee behind me Satan" he did not put his hands on Peter and command that a demon come out.

I must protest that this has become everything we have cursed the LC for in terms of their constant mantras of "poor pitiful Christianity, Whore of Babylon Catholicism, demonic Judaism." We should now tie weights on them and throw them in the water. If they float, they are witches. If not, they are not guilty — but dead.

If we continue this folly, it will be without me in any part of this forum. I must say that this is becoming a dark alley that even I am beginning to fear. My desire is to help people see the error in the LC doctrines and teachings, to help people deal with the pains of their sufferings, and to help some extricate themselves from that system of errors.

I really questioned SC months ago when he slipped away from the BARM for a period. I may not have agreed with his position, but he had a point of order that even I would not accept at the time. This line of reasoning, although very different in character, is worse that what he was dealing with at the time. I have indirectly been accused of being in denial because I think this is terribly off-topic and much ado about nothing. I do not think that idolatry is meaningless or not a possible issue. But our discussion here is nothing more than a bunch of Pharisees pointing at the rest of the scum of society and pounding on our chests.

And the first harsh word back is proof of my point. I doubt that the people who should hear this are really listening. I’m sorry if this offends anyone, but I honestly believe that if you merely take offense instead of listening and considering, then you missed the point.