Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy
I sense in you a measure of pride about your ability to forge on without having any feelings.
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Speak for yourself. It would appear that anyone who sees things different than you is just a theory machine. But it ain't so. I need a level of feelings. Without them, I would never have any sense of anything. I would just drive on like a jerk indefinitely. It is the feeling of internal shame that I am driving like every other jerk on the road that causes me to realize my failure. And it is the peace at the end of the journey that tells me that I have been in the presence of God. But that experience is mostly in the agreement to do as I already know that I should. I don't need a booster shot of feelings to do it.
And that is the way Peter said it. "You have all you need." And even Paul. I need the realization that I have been crucified, and that the life that I can now live will be lived by Christ if I agree with that life. Paul said that he was crucified with Christ. That eliminated the need for circumcision or dietary restrictions. He could simply live the life by faith in Christ.
It is faith in, not inner workings by, Christ. That does not mean that there are no inner workings. But like Paul said in Romans 8, you set your mind and walk, not get your tank filled and go until it runs out. There may arguably be some connection between the two. But the first does take your own volition and will while the second is presumed to just happen because there is all this fuel (which Lee would have called dispensing). And if you don't sense enough dispensing, you just don't start on the journey.
But that makes the Word of God of no effect because it declares that we do not have what we need. It suggests that we need more.
Grace is so often seen as this thing that just handles everything for us. But it is also stated as teaching us to obey. And obedience means that we have to do. And do without simply having everything done for you. Otherwise there is nothing to teach.
I know that I just spouted Lee's theology. And neither of us follow it willfully. But do we still see aspects of the Christian life with a little of that overlay still in place? Thinking that those who come to have a quiet faith are somehow deficient of "experience" when they, without a lot of bravado, just do as they should.
Joy, peace, and love are not measured by your observation. They are found in people with no reason to smile. Whose lives seem to be crumbling around them and they seem more likely to be crying out to God for help than living in peace. But maybe they have more peace than we think. They will always seek better, but accept what they get. They don't seek an experience to tell them that they are on the right track. They know they are because they know Him in whom they have believed. And in that they find peace. Peace that if this life gives them chaos and garbage, the next will give them resurrection.
I spent almost every Sunday evening for the past two or so years with a group of people that included a man who was living on borrowed time. A previous lung transplant that had taken longer than normal to be useful was now on its way out. He started having portable oxygen with him all the time. He was far from comfortable. But still worked as a computer technician over the phone. One day he got an injury on his leg. Hard to heal due to the complications. Ended out in the hospital. At one point they expected him to go home in two days. But he went to a different home the very next day. He knew this was a possibility. And despite what I can only call some fairly sketchy theology, he had peace concerning his life and what could happen. He had been getting all kinds of treatments in hopes of improving his lung function, some of which did help for a time. But while not even 70 yet, he knew he might not live much longer. And was at peace. And was full of joy, although you would only really know if you could talk to him for a while.
Don't look at those average church goers and presume anything based on what you think you see over an hour or so. You might find you didn't really know. I wouldn't have known concerning this man without the more regular contact.