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Originally Posted by Igzy
Another point is we don't just experience Christ in things we do, e.g. as obedience, as patience, as humility, etc. We also experience him simply for what he is, e.g. as King, Friend, Brother, Lover, Savior, Confidant, Living Water, Bread of Life, Life, and on and on. We experience HIM. Christ is infinite. So there are bound to be an infinite number of ways to experience him. There are bound to be an infinite number of ways to experience him that we have not even imagined yet, and which aren't specified in the Bible. Some are indescribable, like colors or music. You can experience them, but you have a hard time putting them into words. So I don't think everything needs to be specified, because there are some things that are simply beyond our specification. We just experience them. The best we can say is "Wonderful."
Let me put it another way. You are married, right? Do you think of experiencing your wife as "discrete" things? Is that really how you experience another person? Is it important to define and put into words how you experience her as you are doing so? I mean, I'm sure she loves your meaningful, discrete, tangible and achievable poetry on Valentine's Day. And to be fair the Song of Songs was quite descriptive. But I wouldn't say describing an experience is essential to having it, though it certainly has its place and is fun to try, later.
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You presume that providing an analogy for your thoughts is the same as providing evidence that it is the way it should be. You list all of these things that we should experience. On what basis is this so?
Or is this view an overlay on the scripture that is not supported by the scripture itself? Even Paul did not suggest that we should "experience" being crucified with Christ. Instead he said because it is true we should live a different way.
The emphasis on experience in a way that is not stated, or even described tends to be in contrast to what is actually taught. In another place you mentioned that the scripture is more about making us all leaders rather than followers. Yet followers is exactly what we are called to be. The leadership for most of us is in not simply following the ways of the world. But the way we "lead" is in following a different way.
In fact, I think that one of the reasons that so many both within and without the LCM have problems with their ongoing life in Christ is that they are constantly given examples of mighty men of God. They are constantly given the impression that truly following Christ means as a missionary or preacher. Or in intentionally going out to preach the gospel on a regular basis. Yet the importance of living day by day in a way that demonstrates both the oneness that Christ said would show the world that God sent Him, and the righteousness and love in our living that is not like even the best of the rest of the world is missed. That is the life that we are mostly called to. To be people loving each other and our neighbors as ourselves. We can layer on a lot of other things, like good stewardship of our resources, including the earth and environment. Not as green zealots, but as those who are charged to tend to the earth.
But this chasing of the experience — the thought that it stands a so important to our life — is not supported by the evidence. You have said it is implied. Yet even those implications are only part of what could be implied. And the implications you see are not necessarily really there. Even accepting that there is an aspect of experience, it is too unspecified and left to the digging in the implications and metaphors (often that we create, just like Lee constantly did) to support it as anything like a primary meaning or a major thrust of the Christian life.
Both the inner-life movement, of which Nee was and therefore Lee as well, and the Charismatic movement seek experience. And while Paul does not simply deny the Corinthians the pleasure from what they sought, it does seem to read that this experiential aspect of the gifts of the Spirit was significantly downplayed in his responses. Despite this, the modern Charismatics search for evidence that their kind have always been around, turning over every stone to establish a progression of practice. And while we think that we are free of the bondage of the LCM — and I think we mostly are — we have brought aspects of its ways with us. Some of those ways are not necessarily wrong. But they are not simply right or "the way."
I would say that given (in my reading) that these "experiences" are not delineated in the scripture as something to seek, they are, at best, the result of something other than seeking after them. More like what we realize in the "after-incident debrief." At that point, if we feel the need, we can dissect what happened and realize that there was something in it that is among these experiences.
If we need to label it, we will know that we have experienced living water when we realize that we have not gone dry simply because it has been 5 hours since our morning quiet time, or after what was otherwise a difficult or dry time. These are things that we have in Christ, not things that we should be seeking separately. Especially when there is no directive in that way.
Just like being crucified with Christ. Paul did not suggest experiencing crucifixion. He gave it as an existing fact that provided the way to live differently. No need to continue trying to appease God with sacrifices, even of a little skin, or refraining from certain foods. The penalty for sin on my behalf has been made sure. My penalty was completed in the crucifixion of Christ. So I can now live life by Him. And walk in newness of life.
Call that experience if you want. But the experience is in the living, not in the crucifixion.