Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
The Bible never says, however, that Judas "experienced Christ" or that he even believed in the Christ. There is no proper experience of Christ without faith. (Heb 11.6 et al) Judas did indeed kiss Jesus on the cheek, and the soldiers later slapped Him on the cheek, and you are positing that these were also legitimate "experiences" of Christ?"
By your superior logic everyone throughout history that has ever claimed that "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God" is also Satan himself, because that's what happened to Peter. And Jesus Himself said so!
You might want to rethink your position here.
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The Bible also doesn't say that John or Peter "experienced Christ". So what have we added, here? When Jesus says, "Get away from me, all you workers of evil! I don't know you!" Isn't that also an experience of Christ, just as valid an "experience" as any other? No? We need qualifiers, then? So what did the "experience of Christ" add? Answer: nothing. Except to captivate our minds with their mental constructions. Don't stay there.
When John wrote "And he carried me away in Spirit, onto a great and high mountain, and he showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven, from God" was that an experience of Christ? When John tried to worship the angel as "Christ" the angel forbade it. So where was Christ, there? The "he" who carried John away in Spirit wasn't the Holy Spirit or Christ, but a ministering spirit. Is everything positive and good simply an experience of Christ? If so, well then fine. But it doesn't seem to me to be so, in the text. If the Bible could be simplified by our metric, then by all means it's well and good. But I don't see it. It's an oversimplification that ultimately needs so many exclusions and supporting clauses that it's really not worth the time it took to build it or hold it forth. Unless of course you're trying to sell books. That of course is different, then it's "cobweb city", baby! Rock on.
If you need "faith" to "experience Christ" then focus on the faith. If you look at the experience you'll sink just like Peter did.