03-30-2015, 08:04 AM
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#129
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: DFW area
Posts: 4,384
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Re: The Experience of Christ
I cannot go through Igzy’s entire list, but my findings were interesting. But first, there is something troubling about the number of translations, mostly not the mainstream, that were used. And I think it will come out as we go through.
Key to Translations:
BEB: ?
MSG: Message
CEB: Common English Bible
CSB: ?
LEB: Lexham English Bible
GNT: Good News Translation
BBE: ?
NLT: New Living Translation
ESV: English Standard Version
NIV: New International Version
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy
Colossians 1:9 (BEB). For this reason, we, from the day when we had word of it, keep on in prayer for you, that you may be full of the knowledge of his purpose, with all wisdom and experience of the Spirit.
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The word is “understanding” everywhere that I can find (and I cannot find a “BEB version). Is this an outlier you are asserting is standard understanding of the verse and its meaning?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy
2 Peter 1:2 (MSG). Grace and peace to you many times over as you deepen in your experience with God and Jesus, our Master.
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Another translational outlier? All other translations I consulted said “knowledge.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy
1 John 3:24 (MSG). As we keep his commands, we live deeply and surely in him, and he lives in us. And this is how we experience his deep and abiding presence in us: by the Spirit he gave us.
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You are fishing for the one translation (typically not a primary “go-to” translation) to provide meaning. In this case, it seems that it simply says “by the Spirit.” Not experience, or knowledge that comes from (neither is provided). So where is the insistence when only one says it that way?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy
Psalm 27:13 (CEB). But I have sure faith that I will experience the LORD's goodness in the land of the living!
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Finally found one that the NIV even agrees with. But what is experience? Several other translations use “see” rather than “experience.” So “observe” might be reasonable. Something that can be seen, not just felt or “experienced” in that kind of meaning of the word.
And a good Psalm. But what is it to behold the beauty of the Lord in this context? To have some kind of inner thing that only you can “be there” to see? I suspect it is in the observation of the peace of Israel, the prosperity of the land, and so on. David is not waxing poetic about how good he feels inside because of something no one else can see. He has lived a life in which God’s pleasure and displeasure are tangible and visible. The people know when it is one way or the other because they see it too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy
1 John 1:3 (MSG). We saw it, we heard it, and now we're telling you so you can experience it along with us, this experience of communion with the Father and his Son, Jesus Christ.
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”Fellowship.” Surely if you don’t “experience” the fellowship, then you probably weren’t there. But again, the Message is the odd one. It is confirming your insistence that “experience” is all over the Bible. But even if the word can be used (and is used by one out of many) it is problematic to prefer the generic over the specific. Fellowship is something specific that you can put within “experience” if you so choose. Why not insist on fellowship here? Why prefer something that does not say “fellowship”?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy
Psalm 143:8 (CSB). Let me experience Your faithful love in the morning, for I trust in You. Reveal to me the way I should go, because I long for You.
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”Let me hear in the morning” is the primary translation. Surely hearing is an experience. But experience is not hearing even if hearing is experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy
Luke 1:14 (LEB). And {you will experience joy and exultation}, and many will rejoice at his birth.
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Have joy and gladness. Can’t find it any other way outside of this one translation. You are fixated on the word and not on what it means. And ignoring the preponderance of the evidence in each that “experience” might not be “wrong” but it less specific and is not what it would appear that the majority of translators got from the verse.
Shall I continue? I agree that I am not half-way through this. But it looks more like a search for data that supports a conclusion. Confirmation bias.
__________________
Mike
I think . . . . I think I am . . . . therefore I am, I think — Edge
OR . . . . You may be right, I may be crazy — Joel
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