[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Hope

Let me help you out here. Let us assume that the 12th chapter of Romans is real. Do you believe, Rom 12:3, God has allotted to each a measure of faith. I am assured that you do...

Could you tie this into "the ground of the church"? I must be missing something here. How does the allotment of faith have anything to do with our oneness or the ground of the church?

I am sure that the apostles would be more than a little befuddled. How could they have ever anticipated the situation of 21th century American Christianity?

In short, my point is that most orthodox, evangelical Christians have every reason to believe that the original apostles would have no problem coming to meet at their church - regardless of the sign on the placard. I think they would care more about if there was biblical/spiritual worship and healthy teaching going on inside. Would they be enthralled with all the various "denominations"? I doubt it. I also doubt that when they found out that there were millions of Christians, just in one country alone, that all the denominations would surprise them either. Again, just a hypothetical that I threw out there.

Many of the posters say that the LSM has declared they want to practice oneness but they have actually created more division. AND I AGREE!!! My point is that to seek to practice a practical oneness with all believers is not the problem but the problem is what the LSM has practiced under the name of oneness.

Ah, but here is something that we need to hash out a bit. I don't believe that Witness Lee (here in America at least) EVER really "practiced a practical oneness with all believers". Oh, with his mouth he did one thing, but from the beginning his actions indicated he was only interested in drawing men after himself. Now, it took him a good long while, but he eventually got what he was after. I think it is painfully obvious now that when Witness Lee talked about "the ground of the church" he really and truly meant a group of people that follow his person and his work. Now, in early days in Mainland China, I think Watchman Nee "practiced a practical oneness with all believers", but it got corrupted as well.

The bottom line here is that "one church - one city" or "the ground" is usually used as a smokescreen for abuse. It has happened time and time again throughout church history. Heck, even the Roman Catholics practice this kind of "oneness". Using fancy-shmancy (albeit non-biblical) terms such as "the ground" etc don't really make much difference. The Word says that we are "one body", "baptized into one Spirit", in God's eyes we are one. Now, how does this oneness work itself out "practically"? Well, that's a tough one. Let's keep at it.

There was a flurry of posts which seemed to be saying we should not worry about the condition of Christianity around us...

Actually I don't think anybody is saying that "we should not worry about the condition of Christianity around us"... the rub comes in just WHAT do we do about it? Do we just huddle up in our individual meeting places and call all other Christians "poor, blind, dead, Christless" and such (like we did in the Local Church) or do we actually get off our derrieres and practice a practical oneness with other Christians. What is practical? Gee, I dunno...maybe preaching the gospel with them, worship with them, encourage those who are seeking to spread the gospel throughout the world, support ministries to the various needs in our community. These are just a few things.

Forget what was okay in 20th Century China or the freedom loving West. We need to have discernment.

Discernment does not take place in a vacuum - what I was getting at was comparing and contrasting our knowledge and inward spiritual discernment with the realities around us. For example, I don't think our discernment should be totally detached from culture around us. We have our Bible. We have our God-given conscience. We have the Holy Spirit. We also have eyes and ears and the benefit of learning from history. ALL these things figure into our discernment I believe.