[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Freedom

The claim I am addressing is what is stated in the footnote: “Calling on the name of the Lord is not a new practice that began with the New Testament...” This is a loaded statement. Firstly, it suggests that calling on the name of the Lord is a specific practice versus a form of worship. Secondly, the statement implies that either people aren’t aware of such a ‘practice’, or that they ‘surprised’ by the practice as seen in the LC. Don’t forget, we are talking about a phrase found throughout the Bible. Where is there any evidence that other Christians remain unaware or ignorant of this phrase?

According to the commentaries it is not just worship it is prayer. How many churches today worship God by calling His name? They sing songs, they don't call His name for the purpose of invocation of His presence.

Having been in denominational churches for 30 years I and my family can testify that the phrase is not mentioned at all and not focused on. WL could possibly be the only bible teacher to highlight this matter and elevate it to the importance that he has. In most churches the only time the Lord's name is used is during prayers of supplication, which is the majority of Christian prayer today. Some churches do not even use the name of Jesus that much, they might use the name God or Father only. However this form of prayer does not invoke the Lord's presence because it is a request for things not a request for the Lord Himself.

In certain denominations I was involved with, it was recognised that there needed to be something more. So sometimes we would practice meditative and contemplative prayer. The aim of this practice was more so to experience the Lord's presence, however I fear it was born out of ritualistic traditions more so than a genuine calling on the Lord.

In Pentecostal churches some of them promote a practice of waiting in the Lord's presence, often using worship music and perhaps calling out to God "Oh God Oh God" etc. This also serves a similar purpose to invoking the Lord's presence but I have observed that a) they do not necessarily use the name of Jesus, and I think that is a key missing ingredient, and also calling on the "Spirit" to come may invoke the wrong spirit, not the Spirit of Christ. Once I worshipped with a lady in this way and she was calling for many spirits of God to come. b)They can overly focus on the atmosphere and music which means it is difficult for them to invoke the Lord's presence unless they have worship music playing.

In the stock standard evangelical biblical churches, they do not practice the presence of God at all according to my knowledge and experience. This could be for a number of reasons: a) they don't believe in or focus on the experience of the Spirit (they may view that as overly charismatic or pentecostal), b) they may believe that the bible replaced the Spirit c) they believe that God's presence is not something to be manifested or experienced, d) they believe God's presence is manifested in an unseen way and we should not use our feelings, etc.

Originally Posted by Freedom

I agree that Gen 4:26 likely indicates a move to more public forms of worship. But my question for you is why are you so quick to assume that using the Lord’s name is simply a loud proclamation of a name? Do you accept the possibility that there was more depth to worship than just that? If the context of this verse is indeed worship (which I think we agree), then where do you see evidence that it indicates it was something more specific than what we might call public worship?

I believe that to "call upon the name of the Lord" means what it says. Even more so when we consider the time period of 3000 BC, I believe it was simple and genuine.

Why do you assume that calling on the name of the Lord is any more than a simple calling on the name of the Lord for salvation?:

Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved"

If you think calling on the name of the Lord is "deep worship" then this would mean that a person must conduct deep worship to be saved. So your view does not really make sense.

And how is singing a 5 minute song by Hillsong "Awesome God" (for example), any deeper than calling the Lord's name to invoke His presence? I would question any view that says any religious activity we do is somehow deeper than the Lord's presence. We cannot get much deeper than the Lord's presence.

Christians assume many things. Why are so many Christians quick to assume that to pray in the Lord's name means to say "in Jesus name" at the end of prayers? There is no biblical evidence for that formulaic prayer ritual.

Originally Posted by Freedom

The LC, of course, believes that calling on the name of the Lord is the way by which we can invoke God. However, the question arises, would they claim this is the only way by which God is invoked? Do they perhaps think it’s the best way? The fact that the LC so heavily emphasizes their version of invocation suggests that they feel their version to be superior. In places like the Psalms, we can find literally 100’s of examples of invocations. Christians use such examples as prayers all the time. Yet, you instead assert the following: It is not surprising that Christianity has lost the practice of calling upon the Lord's name. I’m not sure where you come up with these ideas.

It is not the only way but it is said to be the best way according to our experience. It is something that can be done easily, wherever we are, quietly, loudly, and does not require worship music to be playing as we do it. It is quick and effective way to invoke the Lord's presence, perhaps it has more practical relevance in the underground churches where they don't have the time or cannot risk a long deep worship meeting.

Originally Posted by Freedom

What is practiced in the LC resembles repetition more than it does invocation. True, calling the name of the Lord is a form of invocation, but it doesn’t and can’t stop there. Once I was in the car with an elder and he wanted to call on the Lord the whole time we were in the car. So we did, but it was awkward. There wasn't really any purpose in doing that, and I wouldn’t have done that except the elder insisted we do it. The analogy I would use is this - if I call someone's name, they would be expected to respond. But what if after they responded, I kept calling their name? Then it’s no longer an invocation. It would mean I haven’t acknowledged their response for whatever reason. So I’m not saying that there’s anything wrong with proclaiming “Oh Lord Jesus.” I’m just saying if it goes on too long, or if it’s used methodologically (such as “brothers stand and call on the Lord three times”), that would suggest that everyone is missing the point.
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I agree with you there needs to be balance. As you probably well know in a meeting calling upon the name of the Lord does not normally go on for ever. Normally it is 2 or 3 times. Privately we can do it as much as we feel like. Some see calling upon the name of the Lord as a simple way to "pray continually" as the New Testament commands.

Originally Posted by Freedom

This I must disagree with. The Bible tells us that confessing that Jesus is Lord with our mouths is part of salvation. In the context of salvation, the word confess basically means an acknowledgement of one’s state before God. You cannot gauge that action on a scale of sincerity. The sincerity part is related to belief, and belief is in the heart. When it comes to the facts of salvation, any confession made with the mouth should serve to confirm that the individual understands salvation and their state before God. So getting someone to say “Oh Lord Jesus” doesn’t necessarily mean that they have acknowledged and confessed their sinful state before God. It just means they know God’s name.

Actually it is not just to confess our sinful condition, but to confess that Jesus is Lord.

"confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus" means to confess that Jesus is Lord.

When a person (genuinely) calls Lord Jesus, they are in fact 1) affirming that Jesus is their Lord, and 2) invoking the Lord's presence by prayer so that He can give them the Spirit for salvation. Demons do not call Jesus Lord, e.g. Mark 1:24 they called Him "Jesus of Nazareth". When sinners use the name of the Lord in vain (as a curse word) they say Jesus they don't say Lord Jesus.

The word rendered confess in our bibles is sometimes more properly rendered as profess, which is more than just professing statements of fact but to profess our attachment and identification with Jesus Christ. There is actually no better way to do that than to loudly call upon the Lord's name in public. Just like a child might call out for their parent to show their attachment and identification with their parent.