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Originally Posted by OBW
And I see where you are coming from. You are presuming that God has provided this end-all compendium of ways to make him happy but veiled it in vague implications and coded messages. That his words almost always mean something not actually said. And that the words actually said are ignored because you are busy trying to find hidden meaning.
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Vain repetition includes praying something over and over too much. We may ask, seeking guidelines, how many times is too much? and three then becomes a guiding principle. To say there is no limits, means that repetition is not a problem.
I don't believe everything has coded messages, but such use of three-time prayer cannot be coincidence. Christ's actions mean something. The fact he prayed 3 times is telling. Many things we do in Christianity are because of what Christ did rather than what He said. "Actions speak louder than words." Concerning the number 3, it is hardly hidden or difficult to figure out. The significance of numbers in the bible especially the number 3 is well known. All the scholars point to it.
You did not merely disagree with my interpretation of the number 3, you seem to denigrate the whole bible's use of numbers and almost insult the bible's Author who designed it so. The bible is a book of
prophesy and I think disregarding the repeated patterns, symbols etc is not very spiritually mature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OBW
The Bible is too clear on too many things to leave the difference between proper prayer and vanity to an overlay that says because in this one case (that is numerically different from all others) Jesus prayed three times concerning this one thing, therefore we should understand it to mean we should never pray more than 3 times for anything.
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I never put it like that and I don't think you have understood the difference between a rule and a principle. And I hope you apply the same principle of "biblical clarity" to Christmas if you or your church celebrate it.
We have recorded instances of many people including Christ praying no more than three times. We have no record anywhere in the Bible of anyone celebrating Christ's birthday. That's because we know that Jews didn't celebrate birthdays. We also know that numerology was prevalent in Judaism and likely the driving principle behind why Christ prayed 3 times only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OBW
Numerology, while possibly adding meaning in a few cases, is something of uncertain meaning and application. To insist that the fact of 3, 4, 7, 10, 12, 144, etc. always have significant meaning is just not realistic.
But the only instructions on prayer was instruction for "when you pray," therefore something that can, and even should be the pattern for regular prayer. And it includes a regular, repeating prayer for forgiveness and to be delivered from evil. If we are eternally saved, then why the continual prayer for forgiveness? Might it be because it takes more than once, twice, even three times to deal with our need for forgiveness?
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Nice, even, whole numbers often repeated don't always have significant meaning? Jewish and Christian scholars disagree with you.