Quote:
Originally Posted by OBW
And yet, the Bible is full of references to things within what is labeled as the church that are not entirely what would be if it was all just wonderfully lead directly by Christ.
It is a spiritual battle. And at times the battle, while not with flesh and blood, will include issues with flesh and blood. And it happens within the church.
What you point to in your "2 churches" comment is the fact that the word is used to label two sets (in the mathematical sense) that have significant overlap. And since they are both referred in the Bible as "church," then it is hard to declare that God only calls one of them "church." He is the inspiration behind it all. Not just the parts that talk about the universal church, the body of Christ.
First, there is the church, the body of Christ. No matter how poor we are individually with respect to each other, that is the true, spiritual church.
But second, there is the meeting which will only be nice and neat if we exclude unbelievers and those of different opinions from joining in. And if we exclude unbelievers from meeting, then we take away at least part of the process by which they might come to believe. In the more modern Baptist sense, you can't have an altar call if you have excluded the unsaved from your meeting.
And even if those who have different opinions meet separately, they are each "church" in the sense that they are assemblies of believers (or primarily so, taking the previous discussion into account). But the view from the throne is of one church, the body of Christ, that is meeting in two places. And meeting in two places is not a problem in itself. We will, in the area in which I live, meet in a significant number of places no matter how much we agree or disagree concerning all those side issues.
And if side issues are not the definer of salvation and of "church," then it is all church.
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Point taken. Differing opinions will always be a factor, so it depends on which opinions and how extreme.
The "board of trustees," for example, amends the church bylaws to deny future membership to unmarried couples living together. However, any unmarried couple living together who are already members retain their membership as being "grandfathered in". This is a real life example. To make matters worse, said bylaws were amended behind closed doors without publishing the changes to the church. If you didn't read the bylaws after every trustee meeting, you would never know about such changes.
Many such blatant examples can be sited where the "bylaws" take precedence over the Bible.
One person who DID confront the "untrustees" were told to basically "sit down and shut up." That has a familiar ring, doesn't it?
So where does this leave the unbelievers who come to hear the gospel being preached? Is this the gospel of Jesus Christ who came to save his people from their sins, or another gospel?
The next stage is "Oh well. Nobody's perfect. We just do what we can to work around the spots and wrinkles." It seems that this is the compromised condition of the church (composit 2 churches) today. In today's political climate there would be war against Christians who stand as the church for the truth of the Bible. This war would be worse than it already is today.
How do you dig out of this mess? Leave? Stay, stand and speak the truth? The Bible hasn't changed. You have to start somewhere. Who is going to start? The leadership has failed the members and try to hide their failures. The leaders failed to obey God's word. Members who stand up and speak are shut down. Doesn't say much for Christian leaders does it? But we knew that.
Nell