Quote:
Originally Posted by bookworm
You are free to take anyone to task--even Don R.--on this thread but I would say you are way out of line in labeling a thread "cursed."
|
First, thank you for the freedom.
I call it "cursed" because virtually everything is being misread and misunderstood. It has brought out the worst in almost everyone who has been involved. It has reopened very old wounds concerning those who claim that they are healed, but their words say otherwise. It was almost single-handedly responsible for the exit of several of the most prominent members of this forum.
And while I am not sure that it is entirely against the forum rules, calling others out to meet your challenge is poor. I admit that many of us do it when we note that a particular point has been ignored; or a participant suddenly drops out of one thread while continuing in another. But making a challenge, such a "read a book or don't say anything" is not a valid point. It is not grounds for sound discourse. And opening a long-dead thread to reissue such a challenge after months have gone by is antagonistic.
And antagonism has been the battle cry of this thread from its early posts. We dissected the accounts of non-leaders who were not present on the forum to allow their stories to be told. We sometimes used names. There was a period when the error of the day was so broad that it was pointless for identifying LC error and instead set us all upon each other.
What more do you want? Even putting the challenge in your re-opening post is more of the same. I have a hunch that you would not consider yourself to be among those who would be so antagonistic to others, and yet somehow we all have been guilty in this thread.
I just went back and read the posts by Don that John was referring back to. While the quote was accurate, Don's words appear to be stating that the account in Jane's book were situated in such a way that the implication might be drawn that this was somehow commonplace. He did not say that this was intended. But within the context of the discussions that had been happening on this forum, and specifically within this thread, there were some who seemed to be intentionally doing just that. And they were using TTOG as part of their ammo. Jane didn't do it. But it was being used in that way here.
If you think that John was merely pointing out that the book never intended to suggest that the event was commonplace, he could say that. There was no need to challenge anyone to read the book. But there were some who were trying to paint an almost entirely dark picture of significant aspects of the LC, and that all localities were essentially in the same condition. When they brought Jane's book, and BlessD's story to bear, the injustice was to both to the storytellers (Jane's book and BlessD's experience), and to the gathering of truth concerning the LC. Jane didn't say her experience was the norm. John set out to establish that again. But the context in which it was introduced in this thread was to say that this evil was going on everywhere and how could anyone, especially an elder even suggest that it was not widespread and commonplace.
Then Don stated rather clearly that he had personally seen none of any such "meetings" although he did note that there were talks/rumors about it happening in some places. The only thing that I could see him saying was that it was not so commonplace that every elder in the region who had been in such a position for many years must have seen such a thing. That would suggest that there is something quite uneven in the administration of the LCs. That is a significant point. But it was to be ignored and we needed to simply “paint it black.”
As to any other opinions that might have been expressed about TTOG by Don or anyone else, I can only say that everyone is entitled to their opinions on any subject, even if I do not agree.
I would much rather that Jane, Nell, John, Matt and many others (some of whom had only joined to get caught up in this thread and then left, never to return again) were again regular and active in the discussions of the LC and its personalities. But arguing opinions about what impression something in a book gives to someone sounds more like a need to have everyone agree. And casting a net of "idolatry" so wide that no one escapes loses the distinction that is worthy of note. (We are out to find that some say "I am of Lee" and not that some like to sleep late on Sunday morning and often miss church as a result.)
If you think Don said something with which you disagree, ask what he meant. This forum has become much too sterile. There is even a slowness to simply discuss the doctrines. The experiences are not out of bounds. But they need cool heads. That does not mean no passion. It just means to leave the uzzis at home.
This thread is Mt. St. Helens. It has already blown 1,000 ft off its top in the form of forum members. The latest lava dome is not the place to build a hotel for tourists to come see our collective folly. Let it die. Let it become archived back on the umpteenth page behind better discussions. Even better discussions on the same topics. Everytime we pick it up and post in it, we bring the dirtiest of our laundry to the top and shout for every newcomer to see the ugliness that went on.
This is my plea for sanity and is based entirely on my opinion. I do believe that opinion to have a sound base in fact. But I ask that rather than dismiss it as just “that guy's opinion,” you take a look at the totality of the landscape of this thread. We joyously started looking for the evidence of the LC in the things that sent the second generation running for the doors, sometimes to reject God and get into the worst that life can provide. But it quickly turned to shouts that one piece of evidence was all that was needed and anything that contradicted in any way was to be expunged at all costs. How quickly? Within 4 days of the first post this line was published: “I don't think one example ... mitigates the application of a broad brush” It went downhill from there. The broad brush was out. The witch hunt had begun. The result was nuclear. There is a hole in the forum. Why may be an opinion, but the hole is very real.