Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake
There are several errors in this line of thinking. I'll address just three in this post.
First, the Bible does not teach ""Love yourself as your neighbor." The Bible teaches that we should love God, love the brothers, love our neighbor, etc. but it never teaches that we should love ourselves. What Igzy has done in this case is flip the clear teaching of the Bible to fit his private interpretation, philosophy, or opinion. On the contrary, the Bible teaches that we should not love ourselves even unto death (Rev 12:11). The Lord stated even more forcefully this way:
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26
The Lord was not practicing a form of self-loathing or asceticism, rather, He was stating a fact that concerns all those of Adam. This is the second point: It is the same experience Paul observed:
"For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not." Romans 7:18
Why? Because....
"Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me." v17
Igzy's teaching of our position as God's created beings as its basis fails to recognize and omits to factor in that since the fall of man, we His created beings, are absolutely fallen... to the extent that God has judged the flesh, the self, and crucified the old man (Galatians 2:20). Therefore, his teaching ""Love yourself as your neighbor." is not a biblical one and will not be found in scripture because it isn't there. It lacks the revelation of God's Word. Igzy has assessed that the way to find your soul, the way to glorify God is or begins by loving yourself. We should rather trust God's assessment of our situation. To be perfectly clear, Igzy's teaching about loving the self is a worldly teaching, something one might receive in psychology or therapy sessions. It's not what the Bible teaches.
The last point I will address in this post is about the practice or manifestation of Igzy's teaching. He says "Self-love which conflicts with loving others is not real love. It is fallen self-obsession. ". The Bible says
"We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death." I John 3:14
The reader will have to decide if Igzy's teaching has any reality to it by reading his posts, but from my point of view, one who rails against, berates, and slanders brothers in the Lord day in and day out in a public forum as he practices here in this one has not passed out of death into life in reality. His practice even falls short by his own teaching standard "...not loving others is not real love. "
Drake
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I know you're being obtuse but I'm writing this response for myself (OH NO not my SELF!?!?! Yes...... myself), not to seriously engage you.
The commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself. If we are to hate ourselves, but love our neighbor as ourself, this translates into hating your neighbor. Whoops. I guess we do need to love ourselves so that loving our neighbor as ourself translates into actual love.
If I am the neighbor that my neighbor loves, then why should I not love that which God has commanded others to love?
You called attention to the hating your own life in Luke 14:26. Obviously part and parcel of this verse is the hating of your father and mother, but..........if we are commanded to honor our father and mother, how can we hate them? Obviously there is a little more subtlety going on here, and hating yourself isn't totally literal. Whoops.
God loves me. Should I hate what God loves? I am part of the church, His Body, which He loves. Should I not love what God loves, both in part and in sum?
Romans 12:3 says not to esteem yourself more highly than you OUGHT. This means there is an "ought" to which you
should esteem yourself.
As far as Revelation 12:11 teaching that we should not love ourselves even unto death......I'm glad to be corrected here but that verse is referring specifically to believers during the tribulation, is it not? It is also not a "should" verse, as Lee and minions love to twist everything into, it is a
statement. It is simply stating that those believers at that time will be willing to be martyrs. I'm not saying that we shouldn't ourselves, but I don't see that that particular verse is "should-ing" us into it.
Lee touted the "highest standard of morality" while failing miserably himself. If you want to try to discount the measure of the veracity of anyone's assertions by pointing at their actions which have nothing to do with the truth behind their posts, the only one qualified to post on here is Jesus.
Thanks for your post. They always help clarify things for me.
