[JJ]

Originally Posted by aron

I'm overstating the case to make a point. But it must be made. "And when among you I determined to know nothing except Jesus Christ, and him crucified."

When resolutely holding this "essential" it allows one to venture further afield without becoming lost, or ensnared by someone's speculations. As an illustration, Psalm 96:5 says, "For the gods of the nations are idols, but the LORD made the heavens." The psalmist is looking at Israel's God JHWH versus neighbouring deities. Only one God is Creator of all and thus Lord of all. It's an interesting premise: one "national god" is the "Universal God" by saint of his cosmic position. This psalm and others, and the Prophets repeatedly allude to this, sometimes quite explicitly.

Justin Martyr taught that these "gods of the nations" were the rebellious spirits from the angelic rebellion of Genesis 6:1-4. Justin's source, 1 Enoch, isn't in the canon so we may end our discussion here. But my question is, did Jesus end the discussion here? What were his thoughts?

First, he functioned as an exorcist, a healer and demon-expeller, as did his disciples who followed. In so doing, Jesus referenced an evil spirit going out of a man, travelling through waterless places seeking rest, which aligns closely with 1 Enoch (and, notably, little else for source material besides Enoch). Same with the "great gulf over which none can pass" in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Same with Peter and James' reference to the disobedient spirits in prison. And the adamantium "gates of Hades" so prominently mentioned in the gospels, which kept the disobedient and the dead. Jude of course explicitly quotes Enoch.

So what of it, and why on this thread? First, the fallen human culture that permeates the Lord's recovery "church life". So the gods of the nations are still at work. It actually explains a lot for me. Second, this consideration is just that, and is not a precondition for fellowship. I just share what I'm seeing, but don't need to make an issue. And as I said earlier, my consideration is shaped by that of Jesus, how he used scripture. Is there anything to show his awareness & reception of scripture? Does he ever overtly reject what is written? If he doesn't, I won't.

Wow, aron, I’m surprised that you of all posters would go that far (as you said afield) with the book of Enoch! Jude took the following from that book “Behold, the Lord has come amidst myriads of His holy ones, to execute judgment against all, and to convict all the ungodly concerning all the works of ungodliness which they have done in an ungodly way, and concerning all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.” And it seems what he otherwise wrote was influenced by it, then in the rest of his epistle has severe warnings about those in the church who speak things about “what they do not know yet confidently assert” and do so for profit like Balaam. Paul likewise had similar counsel to Timothy in 1 Timothy 1. Lee often followed his favorite so called “great Brethren teachers” like G.H Pember and D. M. Panton in areas like this and I like other good local churches followed in many areas, perhaps too far? that most Christian teachers avoid. I don’t mind following books of canon there for a while, but an apocryphal book recognized by Roman Catholics and few others. Really. Please help me understand why that is advisable in light of the strength of Jude and Paul’s warnings. Or am I being overly careful?