Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapped
And if Jesus was not God, but was only a man, how could his death atone for all of mankind? If he was man then his death could only substitute for one other person's death. It seems to me that it's precisely that he is God (or God-kind, or divine, or eternal, or whatever doesn't make you shiver) that his death took care of everyone. Yes, he was a man, but he wasn't only a man, or else his death would have been useless.
The bible says eternal life is not only to know God the Father also but our Lord Jesus Christ. Let's talk about the latter one a bit then. Don't keep repeating that one phrase to us. We can read. We understand. We agree. We'd like to talk about a few other phrases. We'd like to talk about some implications. This is not an argument, at least not on my part. This is an interested conversation. Engage with us, please!
|
I tend to think both you and Ohio would take a position based on your understanding of John 1 that God became flesh. This is probably too extreme to face, so it gets watered down to Jesus was fully God and fully man, so that somehow you can avoid contemplating God became flesh.
Trapped, you really misquoted, or left out the significant statement in John 17.3 Jesus does not just say eternal life is to know God The Father, but says to know you ( The Father) the only true God. The impact you are missing is THE ONLY TRUE GOD. These are not my words, but John wrote them quoting Jesus. I receive them, and I would hope you would too. They are extremely significant, because the whole scripture, and our understanding of scripture should be with this foundational thought. Jesus could have as easily said eternal life is to know the triune god- God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit- if this was the case, I would be right there with the best of them praising the triune god. You would have heard this preached, taught, expanded, etc in clear incontrovertible terms. The church would have been based on this! Which seems to be the case of the church since the 4th century. I would tend to think both you and Ohio are steeped in a trinitarian view, and therefore ask so many questions based on your understanding of a Jesus is God belief. Here I am, this nasty guy quoting scripture that says opposite. I believe that Jesus is the Christ- which has most significant ramifications- this is taught and preached throughout the NT clearly. I believe Christ died for my sins as clearly taught by Paul in Romans- that righteousness man died for us unrighteous men. I believe that God raised him from the dead.. if you want to see what I feel about Christ’s position and greatness just read. Ephesians. Paul prays that we would see this glorious revelation of the power and working of God in raising Jesus and enthroning him. But in all of Ephesians, where is the Jesus is God teaching or at least statement? God accepts this man’s death as a redemption for me and all believers. When Jesus rose, he met Mary and said I go to my God and your God and my Father and your Father. Not an insignificant statement about God, Christ and us!
The questions both you and Ohio pose are endless and unanswerable for the most part because they are based on a trinitarian supposition, which is not scriptural.
I can only say again, read through Acts and see what is preached as the gospel.