Pray-Reading is Scriptural

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Agreed. What I think learning pray-reading did for me, and which I have retained, is that the word can be taken as prayer and also out-loud. That is, instead of just reading the word (nothing wrong with that), silently to myself, I can also turn it into prayer. Additionally there's the benefit it has in hearing the word aloud with our ears. So this serves to get several things going - our mind, mouth, ears and hopefully spirit. And to me, scripture is the very best affirmation - it's what He knows and sees about everything, including what is true of His children. So I need to pickle my mind in His word every day, and one good way to do that is pray-reading!

I agree with You.
Last years I discovered that I can listen audio Bible on earphones before I go sleep or driving car.
In the evening I do not have to strain my eyes and this is very different when somebody is "telling You Word". Wonderful experience.
We can always read together with prayer out loud.
I think simply, that instead of doing this spontaneously (there is no need to make a practice of it or tool) LC but especially WL gave a tool for saints.
So experience is one thing but religion another.
If You can, share also what is Your experience from meetings?
I do not want to judge others, but believe me, tone, and lamentation and feeling emptiness was common.
As long meeting is in reality, simplicity, in love, everything is ok and natural.
But I do afraid WL sold us product called "church live" with set of tools and practices.
As I mentioned, it does not work this way that this is a rule to touch God.
Unfortunately teaching is clear: do this or that, and fruits will come.
As long You share with me, I share with You, it is ok. This is our experience. No doubt and no discuss.
Even experience described in WN's book is not so dangerous.
But when You train people at FTTL, or video trainings, teaching that this is a rule, way, this is manipulating and simply setting up another religion with set of believes and practices.
I would repeat after Trapped: where it is written in Scripture?
Ps. 119 is full about Word and commandments, thinking, considering.
But words pray-reading?
So You see, we ca approach to subject as open brothers sharing experiences, or debating upon new definitions or practices never mentioned in the Bible.
LR is so complicated, that now I enjoy simplicity of God's Word.
Sola Scriptura.
Just reading and acting.
I had many definitions and brainwashing last decades.
But thanks God I was reading more Bible than WL works.
If You have some observation from meetings, share, please.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Robert

I agree with You.
Last years I discovered that I can listen audio Bible on earphones before I go sleep or driving car.
In the evening I do not have to strain my eyes and this is very different when somebody is "telling You Word". Wonderful experience.
We can always read together with prayer out loud.
I think simply, that instead of doing this spontaneously (there is no need to make a practice of it or tool) LC but especially WL gave a tool for saints.
So experience is one thing but religion another.
If You can, share also what is Your experience from meetings?
I do not want to judge others, but believe me, tone, and lamentation and feeling emptiness was common.
As long meeting is in reality, simplicity, in love, everything is ok and natural.
But I do afraid WL sold us product called "church live" with set of tools and practices.
As I mentioned, it does not work this way that this is a rule to touch God.
Unfortunately teaching is clear: do this or that, and fruits will come.
As long You share with me, I share with You, it is ok. This is our experience. No doubt and no discuss.
Even experience described in WN's book is not so dangerous.
But when You train people at FTTL, or video trainings, teaching that this is a rule, way, this is manipulating and simply setting up another religion with set of believes and practices.
I would repeat after Trapped: where it is written in Scripture?
Ps. 119 is full about Word and commandments, thinking, considering.
But words pray-reading?
So You see, we ca approach to subject as open brothers sharing experiences, or debating upon new definitions or practices never mentioned in the Bible.
LR is so complicated, that now I enjoy simplicity of God's Word.
Sola Scriptura.
Just reading and acting.
I had many definitions and brainwashing last decades.
But thanks God I was reading more Bible than WL works.
If You have some observation from meetings, share, please.

(My comments regarding bolded above.)

The last time I was in a LC gathering was in Tacoma WA about 10 years ago. The high point was during the singing, which is generally better than many Christian gatherings I've been to (i.e., they weren't relying mainly on a band up front and put some heart into it). But aside from that, I had two main takeaways:

1) The sharing from various ones (there was no set message given) was all about Witness Lee writings . . . and I mean ALL of it. There was no spontaneous sharing of the experience of Christ, or seeing something from the word, or being inspired whatsoever (unless you count being inspired by WL teachings). I considered this part of the meeting to be very rote and fairly mechanical. (You could say that at least we heard from different ones, and that is good, in that most Christian groups don't have much in the way of open sharing. But again, I didn't really consider it open sharing, as there was a set time for this speaking, and they were basically told only to share things of WL from a particular set of morning-watch teachings.)

2) In my sharing of a fresh experience of visiting various non-LC gatherings to a brother there, things came to a screeching halt at that point. He was not open in the slightest to hear how I had enjoyed the Lord among a non-LC group!

You are right about setting up rules and specific practices being manipulative. That is totally the case. The more we do that, the more we push the fresh experience of the Spirit right out the door. It is something to see and experience when the Spirit starts moving in a way that no man is controlling! Otherwise, it's like the Spirit says, "Oh, I see you've got everything handled, so you don't seem to need Me . . . I'll just take a seat and observe things from over there." Sorry to say, the LC has produced myriads of controls and has created this whole culture of exactly what to do, when, etc. But then again, man really likes to be in control, so this is our tendency and must be guarded against, lest the Spirit gets pushed out.

No, the phrase "pray-reading" is not in scripture. Much like the word Trinity, but there does seem to be some scriptural basis for both. My reading of and praying with the word bears only little resemblance to what we were taught in the LC. It might have been OK to teach as a method I guess, to get people out of the habit of coming to the word in a dead way. But to me, what the LC taught was just a prop, like a plant stake - once the plant has gotten strong enough, it doesn't need the stake at all . . . if that makes sense.

Yes, thank God you were reading the Bible more than WL!

[Robert]

" But to me, what the LC taught was just a prop, like a plant stake - once the plant has gotten strong enough, it doesn't need the stake at all . . . if that makes sense. "
I use to say, all ministries wherever they comes from should be like plate in restaurant with food on it.
Nobody is interested in plate it self but food!
That is why saints become little by little hungry "Leebots".
Like zombie. I had this feeling in situations like yours. Just try to share any other verse or try mention teacher or book out of LC!
Strange look, silence, death... really?
" It might have been OK to teach as a method I guess, to get people out of the habit of coming to the word in a dead way."
You know what? I had always burden about live (zoe) in us and practicing all this stuff with love and live.
If You take of name WL, head quarter in Anaheim and mind controlling wolf brothers, many of these practices could be effective in spiritual growth.
I am also very thankful to God for that time there.
Nott everything was corrupted in the beginning and not every person took it in mechanical way.
And by the way, I mentioned somewhere, that WL in one book says that he afraids of people who will follow him without concern and take a books as school or manual books.
Now it sounds perversely when we know that actually he established FTTL with white shirts and black pants.
So how do You think, how is reconstructed brother or sister, which was honest and lovely person before FTTL?
Till now I can not recognize them. They are not the same.
Many word but still about taking good things In a way of life.
For this we need fathers. Not WL, but simply brothers who can recognize needs of saints and serve a food at proper time.
I do not know the whole story about Henry Hon, but it seems he had the same burden.
Years ago we had also wind of this teaching about importance of home gathering.
In my opinion, as long he just share and encourages saints it is ok.
We do not see in Bible any central or head quarter in Jerusalem.
So risk of change into sect is always.
Even this is mentioned in WL works. I am so mad about Satan, that so many good thinks were recovered and discribed and even with such rich knowledge saint could become so corrupted, religious and hateful.Terrible!

On one hand I rejected all things and books from LR, but I really appreciate what God showed me there.
Picture of LC now is "shirt inside out".
There is shirt, there are good points, very good teaching about symbols in Bible... but all we see in acts seems to contradict to what we read!
I hope You catch what I think and feel.
Our regenerated spirit connected to His Spirit. Ameeen! And I believed with all my heart that we know what we talk about!
Pray-reading with open spirit. Ameeen! I was reading even today and I noticed first time in Act two stories about two prisons. ( Pter and Poul,take a look and compair. Have good meal! Share with me some time later).
Listening others with open heart, mind and catching what they say, what not, and what wanted to say. Ameeen! ( from book " Character of God's Worker of WN). I still do practice. Listening with love.
So You see, this is what hurts. Saint fully involved with their heart, watching, howe treasures recovered through the ages are made another deadly weapon ( no sarcasm at all, this is tragic and sad).
For now I stop. I am really sad.
I think there would be good to open new thread about "what good I took out from LR".
What do You think?

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Robert

I think there would be good to open new thread about "what good I took out from LR".
What do You think?

That topic been addressed a number of times on here actually. (FYI - be advised that some dear ones on here, because of their horrendous individual experiences in the LC, don't find much of anything positive to have ever come out of the LC) See here:Some Good Things to Come out of the Recovery?"

Other threads generally pertaining to this topic:
How do you generally view the LC?

What is the greatest error to come out of the LC?

[UntoHim]

FYI, Robert, my dear brother Sons to Glory! needs to be corrected here. The vast majority of people that post here have not had a "horrendous individual experience" in the Local Church of Witness Lee, and even it they had it would have little to do with our discussions regarding the false teachings and harmful and divisive practices.

One such harmful practice is the corporate practice of "Pray-Reading". The corporate pray-reading that is generally practiced in the Local Church is not scriptural. Maybe there is some profit in practicing such a thing in one's own personal/devotional time, but in my experience and observation over 40+ years, the pray-reading that takes place in corporate meetings is not helpful at all for young Christians and new believers.
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[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

FYI, Robert, my dear brother Sons to Glory! needs to be corrected here. The vast majority of people that post here have not had a "horrendous individual experience" in the Local Church of Witness Lee, and even it they had it would have little to do with our discussions regarding the false teachings and harmful and divisive practices.

One such harmful practice is the corporate practice of "Pray-Reading". The corporate pray-reading that is generally practiced in the Local Church is not scriptural. Maybe there is some profit in practicing such a thing in one's own personal/devotional time, but in my experience and observation over 40+ years, the pray-reading that takes place in corporate meetings is not helpful at all for young Christians and new believers.
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To clarify, I said "some dear ones on here . . . [had] horrendous individual experiences in the LC." People on this forum range the full spectrum from almost complete negative to almost completely positive.

And the corporate practice of pray-reading may be what many think of, which I agree is highly questionable as to the profit of such a rote practice, at least the way I remember it being done.

[UntoHim]

Sorry Sons to Glory! but you are still missing the point.

One's personal experience - good, bad or indifferent - has little to nothing to do with the fact that many of the teachings and practices in the Local Church of Witness Lee range from unbiblical all the way to rank heresy. One's personal experience - good, bad or indifferent - has little to nothing to do with the fact the Witness Lee taught that "Judaism is Satanic, Catholicism is demonic and Protestantism is christless" and that Protestant churches are "the daughter of the Great Whore". These absurd and heretical teachings are still in print and being taught in the LC movement to this very day.

People - Christians and the general public - need to be warned about these teachings and practices. Some of us feel a great responsibility before the Lord and to our consciences to sound a warning. I myself never had one single "horrendous experience" in the Local Church. So what? That does not change the fact that people are being deceived. Many young people are being encouraged to attend the Local Church's faux seminary (aka Full-Time Training) There needs to be a place on the Internet that the can hear the testimonies of other church kids who were greatly damaged and even discouraged to point of turning away from the Faith.

Testimonies regarding people's positive experience in the Local Church have always been welcomed here. No one has ever been discouraged, much, much less denied the opportunity to share their positive testimony and experiences on this forum. It's not likely one will receive a hardy round of "Amen’s", but if one is looking for affirmation of that sort they are always welcomed to visit one of the dozens of Local Church sponsored websites.
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