The Four Horses - Revelation 6

[Timotheist]

Originally Posted by Nell

THREE: We have lost a valuable voice due to snarking, sniping, and mockery. We need to clean that up.

Nell

I saw this and decided to give this one more try. I love this subject because I had some ‘a-ha’ moments last year that cleared up a lot of questions for me:


1: What do the four colors signify?

2: What do the horses in Zechariah do, and how does their function relate to the 4 seals?

3: When were or will they be opened? What does it mean that the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world?

4: And the biggie question: Since the four seals are introduced to John by each of the four living creatures, what do the four faces represent and how are they tied to each of the four horsemen?

I have researched this to the point where I can provide a fairly coherent explanation that leaves me fairly convinced that I am on the right track. I will spend some time writing it up as a short article and hope to post it soon.

In the meantime, I would like to read your thoughts on these questions, the last one in particular.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Timotheist

I saw this and decided to give this one more try.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Timotheist

I saw this and decided to give this one more try. I love this subject because I had some ‘a-ha’ moments last year that cleared up a lot of questions for me:


1: What do the four colors signify?

2: What do the horses in Zechariah do, and how does their function relate to the 4 seals?

Thank you.

3: When were or will they be opened? What does it mean that the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world?

Open the seals: Something unverified but should be kept in mind, the belief that "In fact, virtually every prophecy in the Bible has a near-view and a far-view. A prophesy may be fulfilled in the lifetime of the prophet, but it would also be fulfilled again centuries later, usually near the first or second coming of Jesus."

The foundation of the world:
John 17:24 - "loved me before the foundation of the world."
Ephesians 1:4 - "chosen us in him before the foundation of the world "
1 Peter 1:20 - "foreordained before the foundation of the world"
Revelation 13:8 - Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

"Before the foundation" vs. "from the foundation". More questions :-(.
This may link to the "time" vs. "eternity" question. In eternity there is no "before" or "after", now we see the term "from the foundation". What does that mean related to "before". (I hope I'm making sense here.)

"Before" and "after" only occur in "time". This would seemingly sync with the verse in 2 Peter 3:8, "a day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day." The context is pretty interesting, too.

"Before the foundation of the world" ... seems to be in eternity?

2 Peter 3:3-8 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

4: And the biggie question: Since the four seals are introduced to John by each of the four living creatures, what do the four faces represent and how are they tied to each of the four horsemen?

I have researched this to the point where I can provide a fairly coherent explanation that leaves me fairly convinced that I am on the right track. I will spend some time writing it up as a short article and hope to post it soon.

In the meantime, I would like to read your thoughts on these questions, the last one in particular.

Ohio...chime in anytime. Zezima?

Nell

[OBW]

A few questions that I have come across. (I may or may not be back soon to review further, but still worthy of consideration.)

1. Is Revelation clearly provided as some kind of roadmap to a dispensational end-of-times?

2. Are we supposed to figure it out so that we know the actual end is upon us? Is it more important to figure out what the horses, bowls, beasts, faces, etc., are, or to see that the imagery is valid today, whenever "today" is.

3. Is the purpose of the letter to provide keys to surviving the end time?

4. Is the letter alternately to keep us vigilant in our faith no matter how good or bad the times seem and no matter how near or far the end times may be from where we currently are (in time). (Don't forget that each of us has a shelf-life of much less than the time that has transpired between the writing of the letter and the return of Christ (i.e., most will face the end times as the result of a "normal" death).)

Looking back at the first post of the thread, and going where my questions hint at going, no matter who says it, I tend toward the understanding that the four horses are always ongoing. Just as there have been earthquakes, famines, pestilence, war, etc., from the beginning of recorded time, and nothing has stopped any of these no matter how much some like to think that we have "improved."

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

1. Is Revelation clearly provided as some kind of roadmap to a dispensational end-of-times?

2. Are we supposed to figure it out so that we know the actual end is upon us?

3. Is the purpose of the letter to provide keys to surviving the end time?

4. Is the letter alternately to keep us vigilant in our faith no matter how good or bad the times seem and no matter how near or far the end times may be from where we currently are (in time).

1. Yes, just as the OT prophecy was a roadmap for the coming Messiah.

2. Yes, each of us should endeavor to prepare ourselves.

3. Yes, preparation is crucial to ours and others' survival.

4. Yes, vigilance in the faith, i.e. watching and praying, has been demanded of all God's children since Jesus ascended.

And furthermore, there is great blessing in reading and hearing the words of the prophecy, and keeping what is written in Revelations. (v.1.3)

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Ohio

1. Yes, just as the OT prophecy was a roadmap for the coming Messiah.

2. Yes, each of us should endeavor to prepare ourselves.

3. Yes, preparation is crucial to ours and others' survival.

4. Yes, vigilance in the faith, i.e. watching and praying, has been demanded of all God's children since Jesus ascended.

And furthermore, there is great blessing in reading and hearing the words of the prophecy, and keeping what is written in Revelations. (v.1.3)

Good point. You don’t have to “understand” the Revelation, but if you just read it, you will be blessed. I can do that.

Nell

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Nell

Good point. You don’t have to “understand” the Revelation, but if you just read it, you will be blessed. I can do that.

Nell

Very true. I have long felt that much of the prophecy may not be known ahead of time, but those who have read it will be able to recognize the fulfillment as it happens, so it's probably best not to argue over interpretations.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Very true. I have long felt that much of the prophecy may not be known ahead of time, but those who have read it will be able to recognize the fulfillment as it happens, so it's probably best not to argue over interpretations.

Yes, Ohio. This is exactly purpose of prophesies. Main sign of ruling God. He knows what was, what is and what is going to happen.
We can read about prophecies but only watching and praying we can cerrespond with God's plan.
But to fulfill God's plan, He also needs people who hear Him.
We had prophecies about Jesus. But there was people like Herod serving Satan and others to whom Lord could speak and fulfill plan through them.

I would summarize it this way:
We have to read and search as it states in verses from Revelation I mentioned before. But revelation comes from God.
Rev 1.1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, [even] the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified [it] by his angel unto his servant John;

Rev 1:3
Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand.

For me this thoughts exchange was not and argue but blessed time. It turned me to Revelation again.
Probably I would read it any way for many around speak about this book, but it was additional stimulus.

So far Thanks to all for their points of view and research.
If that caused our heart more awaken,then that was exactly what John was writing about- blessing.

[Timotheist]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Very true. I have long felt that much of the prophecy may not be known ahead of time, but those who have read it will be able to recognize the fulfillment as it happens, so it's probably best not to argue over interpretations.

If we extended that position to cover the entire Bible and not just Revelation, this forum would cease to exist!

[Robert]

Originally Posted by OBW

A few questions that I have come across. (I may or may not be back soon to review further, but still worthy of consideration.)

1. Is Revelation clearly provided as some kind of roadmap to a dispensational end-of-times?

2. Are we supposed to figure it out so that we know the actual end is upon us? Is it more important to figure out what the horses, bowls, beasts, faces, etc., are, or to see that the imagery is valid today, whenever "today" is.

3. Is the purpose of the letter to provide keys to surviving the end time?

4. Is the letter alternately to keep us vigilant in our faith no matter how good or bad the times seem and no matter how near or far the end times may be from where we currently are (in time). (Don't forget that each of us has a shelf-life of much less than the time that has transpired between the writing of the letter and the return of Christ (i.e., most will face the end times as the result of a "normal" death).)

Looking back at the first post of the thread, and going where my questions hint at going, no matter who says it, I tend toward the understanding that the four horses are always ongoing. Just as there have been earthquakes, famines, pestilence, war, etc., from the beginning of recorded time, and nothing has stopped any of these no matter how much some like to think that we have "improved."

1.
Yes, sure. Jesus Himself left us instruction there. In first chapters He directed instruction and encouragement to 7 churches. This is full of meaning.
He said 7 times ( seven- nr of God's perfection) "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."
Everyone is reading willingly letters to churches, but horses are more difficult?

2.
Rev 13:18
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Rev 17:9
And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

Col 1:9
For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

3. This little piece... So just consider rest. Is it not about preparation?
Rev 3:3
Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

4. Yes! Off course!
Rev 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Rev 22:6
And he said unto me, These words are faithful and true: and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angels to show unto his servants the things which must shortly come to pass.
22:7
And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.