To Keep or not to Keep (Teachings)

Originally Posted by PeterG

Yes, I know the book very well.

Ok, then don't you think its funny how the SAME issues Lily points out in Watchman Nee's ministry are the SAME issues with Witness Lee's ministry? Even though Lily didn't participate in the Lord's Recovery with Witness Lee in Taiwan or the United States, she knew. That blew me away when I read the book.

[UntoHim]

I had the exact same realization in reading Dr. Hsu's first-hand account of her experiences with Watchman Nee and The Shanghai Local Church - So many of the tragic abuses (psychological. spiritual and sexual) were played out in the initial days of the Local Church (aka "Little Flock") through Watchman Nee and many of his followers, long before Witness Lee brought these abuses to much of Asia, and eventually to America. In fact, it is painfully obvious now that much the bad fruit we see in today's Local Church of Witness Lee had their beginnings in the Movement began by Watchman Nee in the earliest years there in mainland China.
~

[PeterG]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Ok, then don't you think its funny how the SAME issues Lily points out in Watchman Nee's ministry are the SAME issues with Witness Lee's ministry? Even though Lily didn't participate in the Lord's Recovery with Witness Lee in Taiwan or the United States, she knew. That blew me away when I read the book.

No. I was blown away when I understood from Watchman Nee that a divided Christianity is a disgrace in God's eyes. That our church system, is the typical worldly system where everyone can pick and choose the people and style of piety they like and conveniently avoid the others. I was blown away to realize that this is exactly what we do in our denominations. And that instead of repenting, we prefer to say, Oh, what a wonderful diversity! I already assumed that Watchman Nee was a sinner, just like me.

[Nell]

Revelation 3:14-22
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. ...

It seems that dissatisfaction with today’s “church” is nothing new. Should we even call today’s organizations created by personal teachings of men “the church”? (The American church.)

That is, teachings based on men’s personal interpretation of scripture. Better question is what does GOD call today’s organizations that call themselves churches? Why do we spend so much time looking for the “right” man/teaching to follow…teachers who claim “I’m right because I said I’m right.”

If not this, what does “lukewarm” look like?

Has today’s organized “church” already been “spued” out of his mouth” or is that yet to come?

What’s more important, (1) following the “best” man-made teachings about the church, or (2) having a living and abiding walk with God himself, and learning to follow and obey him? Isn’t that what Jesus meant when he said “I will build my church”? I don’t think he meant that we should look to find the best man-made organization to follow, but follow him.

Where has following the teachings of men gotten us? Laodicea? Is the church getting closer to being spued out of his mouth, or has that already happened?

Nell

[PeterG]

Hi Nell, in case this post is directed at me (too):

It seems that the dissatisfaction with today’s “church” is nothing new. Should we even call Today's organizations created by men “the church”? Better question is what does GOD call today’s organizations that call themselves churches? Why do we spend so much time looking for the right man to follow?
In my opinion, we shouldn't call them church. "Denomination" seems quite appropriate to me. In Galatians 5, Paul uses the terms διχοστασίαι and αἱρέσεις, which are well translated as "divisions" and "sects."

Why do we spend so much time looking for the right man to follow?
Amen! This is foolish and misleading.

What does “lukewarm” look like?
A church should conform to the two main characteristics of God himself, his holiness and his love. The one separates us from the world, the other shows by our unity that we follow the gospel. In these two things even a church can become inconsistent, i.e. lukewarm. And what is striking about Laodicea is that it thinks, "I am rich and I have everything." Of all the denominations I know, this fits the "local churches" best. Theoretically, they really did have everything: all the achievements of the fathers and finally even the realization of the local boundries. But then they became just another denomination, and a particularly harmful one at that. Because the enemy wants to block a complete church reformation with every thing he has.

Has today’s organized “church” already been “spued” out of his mouth” or is that yet to come? When?
The most "lukewarm" state was probably already reached at Constantine. Therefore, I would personally say: Yes, it already is.

What’s more important, (1) following the “best” man-made teachings about the church, or (2) having a living and abiding walk with God himself, and learning to follow and obey him?
The second.

Isn’t that what Jesus meant when he said “I will build my church”?
No. It's discipleship. The two things are not identical!

I don’t think he meant that we should look to find the best man made organization to follow, but follow him.
I agree. But after Jesus, Paul also came along and explained to us that God wants a community that is pleasing to him. Just like in the Old Testament. We must take that seriously.

Where has following the teachings of men gotten us? Laodicea?
Yes, but not only to that. They also brought us to the Reformation and the many good recovering steps that followed. These were always blessed when they corresponded to the clear biblical evidence and believers no longer accepted that it was being "twisted" (2 Peter 3:16).

[ThankfulForever777]

It’s been over two years since I left LC, and it’s been a rollercoaster. Yet, each day brings more freedom and clarity. At first, I couldn’t bear to toss out LSM books, hymnals, or RV Bibles. I wouldn’t dare call LC a cult or denomination.

But after reading into books on cults, talking with Christian counselors, and studying the Bible on my own, I’m convinced LSM books belong in the trash. That’s what I did, keeping just one RV Bible with footnotes and a couple of books for reference, not personal edification.

Their teachings are fundamentally flawed. It's a leaven Jesus and the apostles warned against. Sure, there’s some truth in them, but it’s tainted by human philosophy and demonic teachings.

LC exalts its materials above the Bible, much like Mormons do with the Book of Mormon or Jehovah’s Witnesses with Watchtower magazines. Would you keep a book of Mormon or Watchtower magazines on your shelf for spiritual growth or would you through them away?

Personally, I wouldn’t hesitate to through them into a trash bin and that’s what I have done with LSM books.