God is Sovereign

[UntoHim]

Not knowing what kind of relationship you are talking about, I would still give you Jesus' commentary: "What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."(Mark 10:9) Of course this was referring to the marriage relationship, but there are many other relationships which "God has joined together". Would this principle not apply to all relationships God has joined together?

Too many times man has meddled, and then in the disastrous aftermath he says "God is sovereign". This is not the way of the Lord Jesus. This is not what is taught in the Word.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Not knowing what kind of relationship you are talking about, I would still give you Jesus' commentary: "What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."(Mark 10:9) Of course this was referring to the marriage relationship, but there are many other relationships which "God has joined together". Would this principle not apply to all relationships God has joined together?

Too many times man has meddled, and then in the disastrous aftermath he says "God is sovereign". This is not the way of the Lord Jesus. This is not what is taught in the Word.

Relationships between brothers, relationship between sisters, relationships a brother or sister may share with an assembly, etc.
I will need to elaborate later, but for right now I'll say when a brother or sister isn't being politically correct, action taken regarding the brother or sister is to sever the relationship invoking the phrase, "God is sovereign".
In part because of predestination as in Ephesians 1. God has a plan and when there's differences within the Body, removing a brother or sister from the assembly is part of God's plan. There's qualities of God missing by this approach. Grace and mercy. If we really mean God is sovereign, we will realize God's sovereignty in His grace and in His mercy.

Originally Posted by Terry

Relationships between brothers, relationship between sisters, relationships a brother or sister may share with an assembly, etc.
I will need to elaborate later, but for right now I'll say when a brother or sister isn't being politically correct, action taken regarding the brother or sister is to sever the relationship invoking the phrase, "God is sovereign".
In part because of predestination as in Ephesians 1. God has a plan and when there's differences within the Body, removing a brother or sister from the assembly is part of God's plan. There's qualities of God missing by this approach. Grace and mercy. If we really mean God is sovereign, we will realize God's sovereignty in His grace and in His mercy.

Let's agree that God is Sovereign. Let's also agree that God is Righteous.

Yet again, let us agree that man has a free will given to him by God.

God would never do anything to violate His righteousness. However, there is plenty of scriptural evidence that God allows man to make decisions freely whether they are righteous or not. Still man bears the responsibility for those decisions. Standing before the judgment seat of Christ when we are all judged no believer will be judged according to God's Sovereignty. Just as no believer will be able to point at another's failures and sins and claim those are the reason for their own sins and failures.

Cassidy

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Terry

Relationships between brothers, relationship between sisters, relationships a brother or sister may share with an assembly, etc.
I will need to elaborate later, but for right now I'll say when a brother or sister isn't being politically correct, action taken regarding the brother or sister is to sever the relationship invoking the phrase, "God is sovereign".
In part because of predestination as in Ephesians 1. God has a plan and when there's differences within the Body, removing a brother or sister from the assembly is part of God's plan. There's qualities of God missing by this approach. Grace and mercy. If we really mean God is sovereign, we will realize God's sovereignty in His grace and in His mercy.

There are biblical mandates for "removing a brother or sister from the assembly", and not "being politically correct" is not one of them. If this happened in any church I was in, I would immediately exercise that free will that Cassidy talks about and head right out the door. There are too many other healthy, biblically sound fellowships around to take your family to, and not have to fiddle around with people who play these kind of religious games.

[TLFisher]

UntoHim I hear you. I'm sure you know as well as I do, having been immersed in the system for a number of years, it's easier said than done. Realizing the basis of your relationships is remaining in the system. Leave and those relationships will cease. In my opinion that is why it's difficult to leave. In regard to the thread, there is the tendency to disassociate from any personal accountability. I thought Cassidy touched on that point quite well.

[OBW]

Terry,

I keep reading your opening post and the very sound of someone severing a relationship with the parting words that "God is sovereign" just sounds nothing short of nonsensical. Sort of like a suicide bomber shouting "Praise Allah!" as he pushes the detonation button, or the inquisitor proclaiming "Hail Mary . . . !" as he orders an alleged witch thrown into the water tied to a boulder to see if they will float.


In other words, even if there can be meaning in the particular statements, there is no meaning in the context in which uttered. To say "God is sovereign" as you sever relations with someone does not seem to mean anything particular. If God is sovereign, then He is the judge of the situation, not the parties to the dispute. Therefore, if I would like to declare that God is sovereign, then I should be prepared to discover that:

• I have no basis for being partisan in the situation.
• I am the one at fault no matter how right I think I am.
• The other is at fault, but if God were sovereign I would overlook the error and remain in fellowship.
• God really doesn't care about our petty dispute.

I'm sure that there are other possibilities. But simply saying "God is sovereign" does not establish a basis of severing fellowship. And it doesn't establish the correctness of an action.

It sounds more like sprinkling holy water on beef and trying to declare it to be fish.

[TLFisher]

OBW, I see it from a different perspective which is just as nonsensical. From the approach of presdestination. everything is chosen before the foundation of the world. Thus the logic of choices brothers and sisters make is God's sovereignty.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Terry

OBW, I see it from a different perspective which is just as nonsensical. From the approach of predestination. everything is chosen before the foundation of the world. Thus the logic of choices brothers and sisters make is God's sovereignty.

And if that is true, then someone's decision to become a member of the RCC after years as a faithful Baptist is simply a matter of God's sovereignty. And there is no ground for argument over doctrinal differences because God is sovereign. There is no argument for or against the "ground of locality" because God is sovereign. And if He is sovereign, then who are we to try to make anything happen?

[Cal]

Originally Posted by OBW

I'm sure that there are other possibilities. But simply saying "God is sovereign" does not establish a basis of severing fellowship. And it doesn't establish the correctness of an action.
It sounds more like sprinkling holy water on beef and trying to declare it to be fish.

In this case "God is sovereign" is the Christian version of "Whatever."

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Igzy

In this case "God is sovereign" is the Christian version of "Whatever."

In that the adolescent phrase "Whatever!" is designed to be a "discussion-ender," they are similar.

But the saying "God is sovereign" also has the intention of legitimating the views of one side of the discussion. By saying spiritually-sounding things like, "God is sovereign" or "it must be His will," leaders attempt to right certain wrongs. This just perpetuates hypocrisy. When wrong things happen, even if they "appear" vindicated by God, and "appear" to favor their cause, leaders must acknowledge these failings, or they corrupt their followers.

Consider how many of the Blendeds have been corrupted by WL's treatment of John Ingalls and the Anaheim elders for addressing PL's improprieties. These Blendeds (especially BP, RG, FB) knew in their conscience that the Anaheim elders were acting on the Lord's behalf and in the saints' best interest, yet these Blendeds still sided with WL and joined in with his condemnations on all those brothers (including John So, Mill Mallon, and many others.)

Their corruption was later witnessed by numerous GLA churches who were sued by locals instigated by Blended operatives.