Did Witness Lee believe his teaching on "One city one church"?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

James 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. (1:7) For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. (1:8) A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

According to James a "double minded man" is in contrast to a man of faith. We know that the LRC was unstable in all its ways, going through turmoils every 10 years. Excommunications, lawsuits, recriminations, etc. We have also deduced that these turmoils, though always blamed on others, were the result of unrighteousness in the Lee house. To me the evidence is shouting that WL was a double minded man, and by extension not a man of faith.

James description here is incredibly wise when considering the facts of Lee's history. Unfortunately, no one connected the dots here. In fact, years ago I often considered James' word here to refer to someone bordering on the mentally ill.

Lee definitely had two sides. One was completely in line with the rest of the body of Christ, as Francis Ball was told reporters, "he's simply an old preacher whom we all love." Yet to insiders, Lee viewed himself someone greater than apostle Paul -- as the culmination of a long lineage of MOTA's to end the age. This duplicity of personal estimation could only be described as double-mindedness. Did he really believe he was both? Or did he just fraudulently misrepresent himself to outsiders?

At times this contradiction of persona was seen within the LRC. Behind the scenes Lee would manipulate the lives of workers and elders, yet publicly challenge the audience, "Who do I control? I can't even control a mosquito? Which church did I control?" Yet who would publicly dare to stand up and declare he was "controlled?" Lee claimed to be "standing on the shoulders of all who went before," yet not one contemporary Christian leader, either inside or out of the Recovery, could ever be considered his peer.

Lee's double-mindedness, coupled with hypocrisy and abuse, is what caused many of us to reconsider if our "vision" had anything to do with God or the Bible. James said, "let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord." And this fact must eventually be acknowledged. Where were heaven's answers to our numerous prayers? The fact that the Recovery could find no "relief" from heaven, and constantly were "forced" to seek "relief" from the judicial system is quite telling.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

James description here is incredibly wise when considering the facts of Lee's history.

Ps 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

PL and TL were ungodly. By definition DayStar and LSM “walked in the counsel of the ungodly”. This was attested to by the brothers that quit DayStar and the elders that were run out of Anaheim. WL was in the seat of the scornful. “The way of sinners” would refer to violating US laws in selling, promoting, registering, managing, and disbursing the DayStar company. It would also refer to the “Max rebellion”, the “Sister’s rebellion”, etc., etc.

1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

Did the lawsuits “prosper”? Did the Irving hall “prosper”? Did the New Way “prosper”? If “leaf” refers to the “work” of the tree, can we say that WL’s “leaf shall not wither”? Wouldn’t the discussion of the teaching of MOTA, “One city one church”, WN’s excommunication, and a variety of other topics be described as the “withering of WL’s work”?

1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.

This analogy is used by John the Baptist, so even if you have been poisoned about this psalm by WL, you can still receive the analogy of chaff from John the Baptist in the Gospel of John. Chaff is a protective outer coating to grains like wheat and barley. Because it is very light compared to the seeds you “winnow” the grain by throwing it into the air on a windy day. The chaff is blown away. This reminds me of the repeated “storms”, “turmoils”, “quarantines”, etc. in the LRC. Recently, Nigel Tomes article on the ground of the church indicates they are winnowing WL’s teachings and they are being blown away.

1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish


Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness. We cannot see a man’s faith, but we see the difference between “the righteous” and sinners, scornful and ungodly. So then would you consider that WL “Knew the way of the righteous” or that he “sat in the seat of the scornful” (scornful – expressing contempt or derision). Would you say that the people who ran Daystar (PL and TL) and then later the LSM (PL) “knew the way of the righteous” or “were the counsel of the ungodly”? Would you say that all those damaged by WL over the years “did not know the way of the righteous” or was it that they “stood in the way of sinners”?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Ps 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

PL and TL were ungodly. By definition DayStar and LSM “walked in the counsel of the ungodly”. This was attested to by the brothers that quit DayStar and the elders that were run out of Anaheim. WL was in the seat of the scornful. “The way of sinners” would refer to violating US laws in selling, promoting, registering, managing, and disbursing the DayStar company. It would also refer to the “Max rebellion”, the “Sister’s rebellion”, etc., etc.

1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

Did the lawsuits “prosper”? Did the Irving hall “prosper”? Did the New Way “prosper”? If “leaf” refers to the “work” of the tree, can we say that WL’s “leaf shall not wither”? Wouldn’t the discussion of the teaching of MOTA, “One city one church”, WN’s excommunication, and a variety of other topics be described as the “withering of WL’s work”?

Great post. Psalms 1 exposes Witness Lee to the core.

I personally believe that these events were the "poison" that Lee feared the most. Once they learned the behind the scenes truth about Lee, they forever changed their attitude towards Lee. The stench of hypocrisy becomes too much to bear.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Great post. Psalms 1 exposes Witness Lee to the core.

I personally believe that these events were the "poison" that Lee feared the most. Once they learned the behind the scenes truth about Lee, they forever changed their attitude towards Lee. The stench of hypocrisy becomes too much to bear.

Perhaps the stench was so bad when he was teaching the Psalms that he had to reject these psalms then. Must have been very uncomfortable in the elders meetings with WL at the time.

A Prayer for this forum:

Psalms
5:1 Give ear to my words, O Jehovah, Consider my meditation.
5:2 Hearken unto the voice of my cry, my King, and my God; For unto thee do I pray.
5:3 O Jehovah, in the morning shalt thou hear my voice; In the morning will I order [my prayer] unto thee, and will keep watch.
5:4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: Evil shall not sojourn with thee.
5:5 The arrogant shall not stand in thy sight: Thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
5:6 Thou wilt destroy them that speak lies: Jehovah abhorreth the blood-thirsty and deceitful man.
5:7 But as for me, in the abundance of thy lovingkindness will I come into thy house: In thy fear will I worship toward thy holy temple.
5:8 Lead me, O Jehovah, in thy righteousness because of mine enemies; Make thy way straight before my face.
5:9 For there is no faithfulness in their mouth; Their inward part is very wickedness; Their throat is an open sepulchre; They flatter with their tongue.
5:10 Hold them guilty, O God; Let them fall by their own counsels; Thrust them out in the multitude of their transgressions; For they have rebelled against thee.
5:11 But let all those that take refuge in thee rejoice, Let them ever shout for joy, because thou defendest them: Let them also that love thy name be joyful in thee.
5:12 For thou wilt bless the righteous; O Jehovah, thou wilt compass him with favor as with a shield

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Lee definitely had two sides. One was completely in line with the rest of the body of Christ, as Francis Ball was told reporters, "he's simply an old preacher whom we all love." Yet to insiders, Lee viewed himself someone greater than apostle Paul -- as the culmination of a long lineage of MOTA's to end the age. This duplicity of personal estimation could only be described as double-mindedness. Did he really believe he was both? Or did he just fraudulently misrepresent himself to outsiders?

At times this contradiction of persona was seen within the LRC.

The contradiction was never more apparent than the Febraury 1986 Elders conference. I know Indiana has the audio. Historically it is worth examining. If anyone else has the conference audio, listen for yourselves.

As to whether Witness believed he was greater than apostle Paul. I did not know him. I had heard brothers who made similar statements. It is possible if certain co-workers puffed Witness Lee up enough times that after a while Witness was going to believe his own press.