Double Standards

[aron]

Why could Witness Lee hold forth upon the shoulders of giants, but nobody is supposed to hold forth on his shoulders? Where's the next Andrew Murray in the Lord's Recovery? He's forbidden - because WL was the last apostle and seer of the divine vision of the present age. Nobody is supposed to get new light after he passed; the age of spiritual giants is over.

But why can't I pick through WL and WN, take the good parts (if any), mix them with other witnesses of Christ both new and old, and create my own version of God's present speaking, to present to the flock?

Again, where's the next Andrew Murray? What kind of ministry banishes gifted brothers (and sisters) as ambitious and divisive? If you have any gift, or talent, or leading from God, it must be "blended away" so that you become part of the featureless Hive. We all must be absolutely identical, per Our Brother.

The phrase "Witness Lee was the last spiritual giant; the age of spiritual giants is over" is quite telling because there's no Biblical support for such a notion that I'm aware of. Instead it seems to be a product of human culture. This point should be made repeatedly, because it's been so well hidden in their history: the LC is an Asian church. And it's in statements like that above, where the veneer of Biblical covering has been abandoned, that the roots of this movement are clearly seen. There's a brief opening, and suddenly we can see what's inside: human culture, with all of its fallen earthly values, expectations, and behaviors.

And this collective value is intrinsic to Asian culture - don't question the leader. Show respect for Chairman Mao/Brother Lee/Whomever. To criticize the leader is to rebel against the divinely arranged social order, and to separate yourself from society. So the leader gets a free pass to criticize everyone else, to make mistakes, and to call out everyone from the podium and expose them. Yet no one would dare to do likewise to Maximum Brother! Submission to this system and its leaders, both implicit and explicit, is what makes the machine well-oiled. In LC-speak it might called "practical oneness".

In fact, the leader(s) have an open invitation to abuse the system, and those under them, to show that the system works. Therefore, I could watch TC essentially grovel publicly before WL, even using the phrase "I am ashamed", and it didn't mean that WL was an evil overlord or TC was an incompetent bumpkin, but rather that the system was in good working order. WL and TC publicly demonstrated for all present that they had a close working partnership within the collective. This idea of "face" is an essential component to understanding Asian social enterprises. Any textbook examining human culture would probably say this.

I respect Chinese people, history, and culture. But this arrangement is not "normal" at all, contrary to what WN taught, but rather is of the gentiles. And Asian gentiles are no different from Western gentiles - both are fallen and in need of divine remediation. In this the LC was no better than Western churches it despised as "whores" and "daughters of the harlot" and "Babylon". It may even have been worse, because its foundation stone was judgment and separation, not forgiveness and "receiving all those whom God has received in Christ Jesus."

But we were taught about double standards: there was the story of a man praying, who was thanking God that he wasn't like the sinner praying nearby. But he was! In God's eyes, they both were sinners. Yet one's prayer judged the other and one's prayer repented of sin. Which went away justified? And a very clear story was about the guy asking forgiveness of his debts, but who wouldn't forgive those who owed him. He wanted two sets of rules: one for himself (mercy) and one for the other (condemnation). Doesn't work that way.

[aron]

Originally Posted by aron

The phrase "Witness Lee was the last spiritual giant; the age of spiritual giants is over" is quite telling because there's no Biblical support ... in statements like that, where the veneer of Biblical covering has been abandoned, the roots of this movement are clearly seen. There's a brief opening, and suddenly we can see what's inside: human culture, with all of its fallen earthly values, expectations, and behaviors.

Another story was from the FTTT Taipei during the New Way, where the organizational scheme was presented, and one of the (American) brothers asked, "But, isn't that a hierarchy?", to which the (Chinese) brother replied, "If others do it, then it's a hierarchy, but if we do it, it's not a hierarchy."

This "When we do it it's good but when others do it it's bad" subjectivism of the LC isn't from the Bible, but is consistent with a human culture in which the collective is paramount. If we (the collective) are God's move on the earth, then our leader is God's apostle of the age, the Deputy God, and we do whatever he says even if it's contradictory, illogical, or unsupported by scripture. "Whatever Max Brother says is the law of the land" IS the law of the land. And because MaxBro is apparently so focused on building up the collective, everything he does and says is divinely sanctioned. Even when he's illogical he's logical, when he contradicts himself he's not, and when he's wrong he's right. Even if he skims the till for his family, and sacks his right-hand man for protesting, it's okay, because he's here for the Body.

When you look at it from the outside it looks nutty, but from the inside it's completely consistent because everything is "for the building of the Body." Double standards are okay because they're within one standard: to build up the collective. What did Lee say, "Sail on! Sail on!"

[awareness]

Originally Posted by aron

Another story was from the FTTT Taipei during the New Way, where the organizational scheme was presented, and one of the (American) brothers asked, "But, isn't that a hierarchy?", to which the (Chinese) brother replied, "If others do it, then it's a hierarchy, but if we do it, it's not a hierarchy."

This "When we do it, it's good but when others do it, it's bad" rampant subjectivism of the LC isn't from the Bible, but is entirely consistent with a human culture in which the collective is paramount. If we (the collective) are God's move on the earth, then our leader is God's apostle of the age, the Deputy God, and whatever he says, goes, even if it's contradictory, illogical, or not supported by Scripture. "Whatever Max Brother says is the law of the land" IS the law of the land. And because MaxBro is apparently so focused on building up the collective, everything he does and says is divinely sanctioned. Even when he's illogical he's logical, and when he's wrong he's right. If he skims the till for his family, and sacks his right-hand man for protesting, it's okay, because he's here for the Body. The building needs MaxBro.

When you look at it from the outside it looks nutty, but from the inside it's completely consistent because everything is "for the building of the Body." Double standards are okay because they're within one standard: to build up the collective. What did Lee say, "Sail on! Sail on!"

Bro aron, google hoodoo. Check out wiki on it.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by aron

Another story was from the FTTT Taipei during the New Way, where the organizational scheme was presented, and one of the (American) brothers asked, "But, isn't that a hierarchy?", to which the (Chinese) brother replied, "If others do it, then it's a hierarchy, but if we do it, it's not a hierarchy."

Actually Aron, the brother's right. When others do it, it is hierarchy. Within the recovery, it's fellowship.

Here's another one, take the LSM fellowship of ministry and churches. It's been termed "an organism". When other do it (SBC), it's "an organization".

[Freedom]

A few more:
Why is it that Ron and Kerry could write a book in which they purported to "discern" a situation, yet when their analysis was put under the microscope, Ron hid behind the analogy of the two trees? Ron gets to "discern" what he perceives to be good and bad, but if anyone else does, it is characterized as being of the "wrong tree" and he might even call someone a "man of death".

Why is it that BFA, a non-profit corporation, needs to buy advertising on Facebook to distribute free literature? If a ministry is really that good, wouldn't people be happy to receive free literature without prompting? Wouldn't people also be willing to buy the books if it's that good?

[aron]

Originally Posted by Freedom

Why is it that BFA, a non-profit corporation...

And why does a group that blasts everyone else for taking names other than that of the Lord Jesus Christ continually sprout new names, like Bibles for America, Christians on Campus, Defense and Confirmation, Lord's Move to Europe, and so forth?

Is their only defense, "When we do it, it's okay, but when others do it, it's not okay"? Talk about double standards.

[TLFisher]

Another double standard....we've heard over the years about elders and coworkers leaving the LC/LSM fellowship being attributed to offenses, unfulfilled ambitions, etc. I really don't believe it's the case, but in considering the reasoning I suppose that means the elders, coworkers, etc who didn't leave the LC/LSM fellowship have fulfilled their ambitions.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by aron

And why does a group that blasts everyone else for taking names other than that of the Lord Jesus Christ continually sprout new names, like Bibles for America, Christians on Campus, Defense and Confirmation, Lord's Move to Europe, and so forth?

Is their only defense, "When we do it, it's okay, but when others do it, it's not okay"? Talk about double standards.

They would probably say that these organizations are not part of the church, so it's okay to give them names. If that were their response, I would then ask them why have those who have shown indifference or opposition to such organizations been excommunicated from the local churches, if the said organizations have nothing to do with the church?