The Ground Of The Church

[aron]

Originally Posted by YP0534

Oregon:

Given that what you say is true, what is your response, if any? How do we relate to our brothers and sisters who do what you say they do? I'm mostly concerned that I might be one who could be subject to such a charge on some issue or other and I'd like to know, if I could, how I might discern the Spirit's leading in the circumstance as opposed to just having to choose between my own logic and another's presentation of verses.

Good questions, and relevant to any topic on which there are varying weights placed on varying sets of scriptures.

My own take is this: when I base my oneness on the necessity of the other one coming to meet me, rather than vice versa, then I am in for a long and cold wait in the dark. Here is the old complaint: "When the others just see my way (my logic, the primacy of my crucial verses, etc), then we will all get along. Then all problems will be over and we will have heaven on earth." It will be some variation on this theme. "You must come to where I am."

Then I see the action of God. He loved us so much that He sent His only begotten Son. (John 3:16).

While we were yet sinners, God loved us anyway. Christ died for us in our wretched state. (Rom. 5:6,8).

God manifested His love for us by sending His only begotten Son, that we might have life and live through this One. (1 John 4:9).

Herein is real love, not that we loved God [we could not], but that God loved us and sent His Son as a propitiation for our sins. (1 John 4:10).

Any attempt by man to bridge the gap, to cover the lack, to make up the lost ground, are illusion and vanity. From Adam and Eve's fig leaves to the tower of Babel and right up through. God alone can bridge the divide.

So to assume we are in the truth, and to expect others to come to our stand, our "ground", is perhaps a tad presumptuous. Rather we see the sending God. We have the real truth, God's love come into our hearts (Romans 5:5), that we might also be the ones stretching forth.

This is why I so strongly disagree with the events of the past few years. Let's assume Titus was wrong and the Anaheims were right. Let's assume the GLA churches with a cacaphony of electric music and dramatizations were in error.

But cutting off believers who are not in sin, but merely in subjective interpretational error, is to me not the love of God. We should take a stand for the truth (scripture, logic, the testimony of history, and even our own experiences and subjective "feelings"), but I believe the greatest truth of all is love. God has commended His own love to us, in Christ Jesus, and we therefore can commend God's love to one another. Cutting off one another over disagreements may in fact be love, but I have yet to be persuaded of this by any of the means I have listed above.

[YP0534]

Originally Posted by aron

But cutting off believers who are not in sin, but merely in subjective interpretational error, is to me not the love of God. We should take a stand for the truth (scripture, logic, the testimony of history, and even our own experiences and subjective "feelings"), but I believe the greatest truth of all is love. God has commended His own love to us, in Christ Jesus, and we therefore can commend God's love to one another. Cutting off one another over disagreements may in fact be love, but I have yet to be persuaded of this by any of the means I have listed above.

Fine, aron. I understand the same way. But I'm still puzzled.

How to remain in oneness with those who would actually denounce your "stand for the truth" as you propose?

One proposes that there's no possilbility for anything other than one assembly in a place. Another proposes that there's no practical possibilty for only one church in a place of any size. Do they agree to disagree and praise the Lord together? Do they agree to disagree but exercise the freedom separate just the same?

More to my immediate point, however, what to do about someone who strongly believes that your "stand" is beyond the pale? How do you maintain your "stand" while remaining one with such a one who wishes to withdraw???

Have you become a stumbling block for the sake of your truth, which itself is not confirmed by more than your own conscience????

[aron]

Originally Posted by YP0534

... what to do about someone who strongly believes that your "stand" is beyond the pale? How do you maintain your "stand" while remaining one with such a one who wishes to withdraw???

If my stand includes as it's cornerstone repentance in the face of God's overwhelming love, then I don't violate it when I reach out to others, acknowledging my at least partial error. Only God is 100% right. The rest of us, including me, are at least somewhat in error.

Do I always live it? No, I can be arrogant and self-righteous and judgmental. But at least in theory, I think this approach can allow movement without being violated.

God's love, ultimately, conquers all. It's just a matter of time.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by YP0534

One proposes that there's no possilbility for anything other than one assembly in a place. Another proposes that there's no practical possibilty for only one church in a place of any size. Do they agree to disagree and praise the Lord together? Do they agree to disagree but exercise the freedom separate just the same?

"..God has called us to peace." 1 Cor 7:15b.