The LCS Factor

[Hope]

Originally Posted by blessD

I read this yesterday and wanted to respond, but took a day of break to meditate and pray about what to write. To this comment, "It would help if some names were clearly mentioned in this case and in the case involving BlessD", I would like to say, Hope, I sent you details of my story referenced on this forum in a private message and CCd Thankful Jane as a witness. I gave you details, names, places, and times. I do not wish to give those details publicly and believe reasonable persons would understand without me spelling it out.

I have no motive than to say the truth and talk to others about the journey of healing from such wounds. I know from other friends there were more than 2 instances of such things that went on. Those friends would not 'set foot' in this forum or anywhere else that the LC is discussed.

Honestly, I quit coming to the forum because of this type of response. It reminds me way too much of things I left far behind.

Dear Posters,
By the way, I have never referenced this incident except to respond to posts.

(By the way, am I allowed to respond or are certain personalities off limits. Please spell out who is in a safe zone. Sorry to bring it up but Phillip Lee had a safe zone. Benson Phillips had some brothers and sisters that were in a safe zone. With God there is no partiality. )

I have asked for details since these two “one of those meetings” have now been trumpeted as some type of proof case. Matt has used the title “shaming meetings.” Now we have an official practice. His mother’s book is launched from her rough treatment by Benson Phillips in what could be I suppose “a shaming meeting.”

It seems to me that these incidents are presented as critical to a particular evaluation of the local church movement.

I wonder how many teenage girls have been counseled by a Southern Baptist pastor who asked an associate to witness for his own protection. I never questioned that there was some kind of counseling sessions, and it seems they did not go well, but that is not how some have attempted to use the supposed “shaming meetings.”

Now here is the part from BlessD’s PM to me that supplied the details to put to rest the accuracy and fairness of the report attributed to her. She did identify herself and her parents and who she was living with in Houston. She identified the young boy she liked. She described the dining room in the “big house.” By the way the name big house was used to distinguish it from the tiny cottage on the property known as the “little house.” My memory is very good regarding that house. I was very much into the details when we purchased it and refurbished it. I also was the first resident. The dimensions of the dining room were 12x16. BlessD mentions going to a bed room to pray with her parents and some of the elders.There was a tiny bed room just past the living room which could be used for a single guest and had a couple of chairs for counseling etc.

The actual PM:
……..
"As eldership attendees go, Houston was there with at least 4 in attendance, Austin was there with at least 3-4 in attendance, OKC was there with 4-5 in attendance, Dallas was there with 3-5 in attendance, averaging 16 elders or representatives *altogether*. I believe Ron Kangus(sp) and family was resident to the home next to the hall. He may or may not have been present.
I believe what you say that you were not present and have written you the same *publicly*. I will be happy to write another public post making it clearer that I am agreement you were not there."

She later corrected the part about Ron Kangus as he has never lived in Dallas.

I am pretty well done with this. It is very difficult to address an “idea.” Some in the heart of the LSM/LC have an “idea” which they promote and defend. The term “recovery” is essentially an idea or ideal. Another “idea” is that of the one man of the age or the one oracle of the age. On the other forum there were defenders of “the idea.” They would come on and quote this and that from Witness Lee and essentially say, “You see, WL stood for the idea.” No evidence that the so called local churches or ministry had missed the mark in practice or teaching could be examined because WL clearly was for “the idea,” “the ideal.” Any action which did not support this ideal was bad and unacceptable behavior.

By way of illustration of this fact of human behavior and sociology, for you, Igzy, OBW and other poets and bards who post here, John Denver once sang out “Thank God I’m a country boy.” Sarah Palin repeatedly proclaimed that she had “small town values.” On the other hand that infamous Texas philosopher, Willy Nelson sang, “a cowboy ain’t nothing but a slow moving song.” By the way “Texas” is not so much a place but is an idea.

This thread is more of a presentation of an idea than anything else. All posters who have attempted to participate and not supported the idea that “the LSM/LC system was a uniform cultish group which controlled and damaged people and children have been pretty much expelled and eliminated.

I am glad I am not a country boy any longer. John Denver can have it. Living hard is not for me. My country girl sweetheart chewed tobacco and it sure does mess up the kissing. Just kidding. Never happened. It is just a little light motif. You can have the small town life. No problem if that is where you are but some of the nicest people I know live in Manhattan. (It is the tourists there that are rude.)

One of the huge problems with the local church movement, especially in the early days, was that so many brought in their “idea” of what they would like the Christian life to be. Jesus did say we need to deny our self. We had our “crucified life” crowd who quoted Jean Guyon and sought to make life miserable for everyone. John wrote clearly “Love not the World.” Some insisted that only those who dressed simply and lived a puritan life were growing spiritually. I personally like this one and an ascetic life. We had our “what is God doing in this age” crowd. They were on the move and wanted to be right in the center of whatever up-to-date revival was happening. We had the “I want to be the disciple of an apostle like Timothy to Paul.” James Barber was the greatest proponent of this idea. Some believed a committed group could move as one and save the world. Max Rapoport was one of the leaders of this group. There were lots of different “ideas.” Benson Phillip believed the Lord wanted to restore a federation of churches to a New Testament standard and send out a committed cadre that would reform Christianity. Some were “going to bring the Lord back.”

It is very difficult to simply have fellowship with the Father and the Son and one another when the brother or sister is deep into “the idea.” This thread has resulted in many leaving this forum because their portion was rejected because they were not in on a certain idea. Their testimony was disregarded. Yet if someone had a good horror story to tell about a local church elder or whatever, they are a hero or heroine. Think about it. Do some posters treat the other posters based on what is their point of view. The same persons have heralded ole Hope as wonderful as long as he is exposing Benson Phillips etc. but let him not agree with a certain negative view and he has reverted to a mean local church elder who wants to hush up the saints.

I have been told in no uncertain words that the forum is not the place to give balancing points of view. If you have the idea that “I must destroy the local churches right down to its roots in order to save as many of the innocents as I can,” well there is not much chance of having a dialogue.

I just read the book about Josh Hamilton, “Beyond Belief.” He went through eight rehab programs which all failed. His clear conclusion was that every place wanted him to blame his parents and he could not accept that therefore they could not help him.

On this thread, I have resisted the ideologues narrow prescriptions. I never went after Juliep or BlessD but they were utilized to support an idea. May we all bring these matters to the Lord and let His light shine.

Hope, Don Rutledge

A believer in Christ Jesus who is seeking to be a true disciple.
John 8:31-32, Jesus therefore was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. " NASB

I have one more post for this thread which I may post later today. After that I plan to only read the thread from time to time and will note and consider any responses.