Wait, It's A Cult?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

As per my previous post, why go down this road of survey questions at all? We have to consider the weight of each question, the potential for "survey bias", and the fact that we need to decide on thresholds. But you have given a number of other good "survey questions" that I do not see in the OP.

Why put fire alarms in buildings? Why put burglar alarms on cars? Why did Reagan say "trust but verify"? Why did Jesus say "be wise as serpents, harmless as doves?" Why do we need prudence and discernment?

So many questions.

The OP was hoping to get responses from those on this forum to "drive home the validity of the survey questions". My response to the OP is very clear, those questions are not valid.

The reason they might seem valid is that a "false Christ" is imitating Christ, therefore they will try to imitate things that are true of Christ. It is like the mineral Pyrite (fool's gold). It is gold color and it does something very interesting which is it forms large cubes as a crystal structure. Usually the crystal structure reveals the molecular structure. Gold's molecular structure is cubic which is very symmetrical, but Pyrite's is not. Therefore it is very strange that it would form cubes when the molecular structure is not cubic. So then the gold color and the cubic crystals are not evidence of fool's gold. It is as though these criteria are telling you to identify fool's gold by those two criteria. Every single criteria in the OP can be applied to Jesus, or Peter, or Apollos, or James, or Paul, etc. So then you would always be accusing genuine men of God of being "false prophets and teachers" if you use this criteria.

No, the way to identify fool's gold is 1. Density 2. fracture -- the mineral will break into pieces if you strike it with a hammer, gold is malleable 3. Rust -- pyrite will show oxidation whereas gold will not and 4. Look carefully at the crystal faces, fools gold has little lines on each face that show that the molecular structure is far less symmetrical than a cube.

The way to identify a false teacher --

1. Ministry is based on a fabricated story
2. Purpose is to make merchandise of you
3. Modus operandi is to make you twofold more a son of Gehenna
4. Outward appearance is "a false Christ".

True ministries are based on the truth:

Paul was less than the least because he persecuted the saints of God

James was caught up with the Judaizers in a personality cult

Peter denied the Lord

They don't make merchandise of the saints -- rather they support themselves as tent makers, or fishing, etc.

Their "fruit" reveals they are not thorns and thistles. Just as Paul said "you are my letter of recommendation"

They are servants of God and don't pretend to be Christ, or super apostles.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Why put fire alarms in buildings? Why put burglar alarms on cars? Why did Reagan say "trust but verify"? Why did Jesus say "be wise as serpents, harmless as doves?" Why do we need prudence and discernment?

So many questions.

The OP was hoping to get responses from those on this forum to "drive home the validity of the survey questions". My response to the OP is very clear, those questions are not valid.

The reason they might seem valid is that a "false Christ" is imitating Christ, therefore they will try to imitate things that are true of Christ. It is like the mineral Pyrite (fool's gold). It is gold color and it does something very interesting which is it forms large cubes as a crystal structure. Usually the crystal structure reveals the molecular structure. Gold's molecular structure is cubic which is very symmetrical, but Pyrite's is not. Therefore it is very strange that it would form cubes when the molecular structure is not cubic. So then the gold color and the cubic crystals are not evidence of fool's gold. It is as though these criteria are telling you to identify fool's gold by those two criteria. Every single criteria in the OP can be applied to Jesus, or Peter, or Apollos, or James, or Paul, etc. So then you would always be accusing genuine men of God of being "false prophets and teachers" if you use this criteria.

No, the way to identify fool's gold is 1. Density 2. fracture -- the mineral will break into pieces if you strike it with a hammer, gold is malleable 3. Rust -- pyrite will show oxidation whereas gold will not and 4. Look carefully at the crystal faces, fools gold has little lines on each face that show that the molecular structure is far less symmetrical than a cube.

The way to identify a false teacher --

1. Ministry is based on a fabricated story
2. Purpose is to make merchandise of you
3. Modus operandi is to make you twofold more a son of Gehenna
4. Outward appearance is "a false Christ".

True ministries are based on the truth:

Paul was less than the least because he persecuted the saints of God

James was caught up with the Judaizers in a personality cult

Peter denied the Lord

They don't make merchandise of the saints -- rather they support themselves as tent makers, or fishing, etc.

Their "fruit" reveals they are not thorns and thistles. Just as Paul said "you are my letter of recommendation"

They are servants of God and don't pretend to be Christ, or super apostles.

All well and good.

However this one stands out to me as possibly labelling otherwise good ministries as false just because they devote themselves full time to ministry:

"They don't make merchandise of the saints -- rather they support themselves as tent makers, or fishing, etc."

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The OP was hoping to get responses from those on this forum to "drive home the validity of the survey questions". My response to the OP is very clear, those questions are not valid.

Thanks for the response ZNP. I think you have a valid point of view. I wasn't clear enough in the OP. The hope was not to validate the survey questions, but to validate each point in relation to the LSM. My hope was to see where Witness Lee spoke specifically about "All-knowing leadership" or "A new and better way", etc. This may seem like a waste of time to someone who doesn't believe the points relevant, and I can agree with that. Since this post from Christianity Today has such a prominent place on the internet in relation to defining cults, I thought it would be interesting to see how what the ministry has said specifically on these topics. I can't speak for the author of the article, but I assume it was written for modern groups, so Peter, Paul, and the gang wouldn't even be called into question.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

Thanks for the response ZNP. I think you have a valid point of view. I wasn't clear enough in the OP. The hope was not to validate the survey questions, but to validate each point in relation to the LSM. My hope was to see where Witness Lee spoke specifically about "All-knowing leadership" or "A new and better way", etc. This may seem like a waste of time to someone who doesn't believe the points relevant, and I can agree with that. Since this post from Christianity Today has such a prominent place on the internet in relation to defining cults, I thought it would be interesting to see how what the ministry has said specifically on these topics. I can't speak for the author of the article, but I assume it was written for modern groups, so Peter, Paul, and the gang wouldn't even be called into question.

But how would you distinguish between a genuine man of God and a false teacher? Don't think that Christianity is somehow immune from the group think that infected the LRC. That was not the lesson I took away from my experience. In my experience all believers will fall into this trap unless they are grounded in the word and appreciate how prevalent the "false teachers" are. Falling into this once, that is on those in the LRC that stumbled the new believers. But if you fall into this again, well, there is something you have to deal with in your own walk.