Brotherly Love the Source of Oneness?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

If you receive what Watchman Nee has to say, measure it according to the Word. Following are Watchman Nee's words as published by Living Stream Ministry:

"I would like to draw your attention to the basis of our oneness. This is fundamental. The basis of our oneness is the forsaking of sins. Please bear in mind that God's children are divided today because of the problem of sins.

While I appreciate much of WN, I have to protest this statement. This is straight from J.N. Darby (and Rome before him.) Darby made the "unity of judgment" as the basis for our oneness. It was perhaps the first tract he wrote for the Brethren. And, of course, it was he, and he alone, who defined what was the "sin" that the congregation must judge ... or else. When this gets translated into action on a personal basis, it really means this: "we can only be one as long as we all hate the same thing." And the necessary corollary to this "oneness" is simple: "headquarters (initially JND) will tell us all who and what we are all to hate."

I know this word "hate" sounds harsh, but I view it as a synonym to much of bigoted religious judgment. If you won't talk to someone, if you have nothing good to say about someone, if you refuse to even acknowledge the person, if you smear their reputation abroad with lying rumors, etc. etc. how can this be any different from "hate?" You tell me the difference.

WN's (and Darby's before him) statement above is the basis for exclusivism. When one first hears this, the normal thought is the rejection of gross sins, as enumerated in scripture e.g. I Cor chapter 5. But ... who is without sin? And who makes up the list of sins? And who sets the limits to those sins? The exclusives were famous for using this "teaching gone wild" to lynch their rivals. There is just about no limit to what can be considered "sin," especially when the matter of "oneness of the body" is elevated way beyond the Spirit of God. Just expressing an opinion can qualify as a "divisive activity," thus worthy of censure.

Here is an example of the "forsaking of sins," also known as the "unity of judgment," run amok in exclusive circles. Mt 18.18-19 says "whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven ... if two or three shall agree on earth concerning anything they ask, it shall be done by My Father in heaven." These scriptures got all distorted by the exclusives, and eventually they came to mean this -- If I don't like you, and I can "pray" with one more saint and get them to agree with me, then your "sin" must be judged, and heaven is bound to enforce it ... along with all the Brethren assemblies. Two brothers in some obscure town can enact binding judgments for all assemblies around the globe! Unbelievable ... but true!

I have not made up any of this folks. This is history. The history of the Brethren and now what is becoming the history of the LC's. The Brethren had a 100 year "head start," that's all. The Apostle Paul, however, never speaks of the "oneness of the body," or something called the "unity of judgment." He speaks of something wonderful called the "oneness of the Spirit." This is so positive! The church should never become a "cesspool of judgments," based on mere human manipulations.

[YP0534]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The Apostle Paul, however, never speaks of the "oneness of the body," or something called the "unity of judgment." He speaks of something wonderful called the "oneness of the Spirit." This is so positive! The church should never become a "cesspool of judgments," based on mere human manipulations.

Ohio - my appreciation of this comment from Nee was that it was an internal discerning according to our worthiness to participate in the the fellowship of the bread-breaking meeting. I consistently get convicted to confess whenever I move to fellowship with the saints in a meeting of any kind. I immediately plead the blood and move on in the oneness of the Spirit from that point forward.

The interpretation you're speaking about from history sounds horrible and has nothing to do with my experience at all!

Just to make that clear!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by YP0534

Ohio - my appreciation of this comment from Nee was that it was an internal discerning according to our worthiness to participate in the the fellowship of the bread-breaking meeting. I consistently get convicted to confess whenever I move to fellowship with the saints in a meeting of any kind. I immediately plead the blood and move on in the oneness of the Spirit from that point forward.

The interpretation you're speaking about from history sounds horrible and has nothing to do with my experience at all!

Just to make that clear!

Good point, YP.

For clarity's sake, let's call your testimony the "conviction of sins" and the historical record in my post the "judgment of sins." Possibly the "forsaking of sins" can be considered a third item.

[YP0534]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Good point, YP.

For clarity's sake, let's call your testimony the "conviction of sins" and the historical record in my post the "judgment of sins." Possibly the "forsaking of sins" can be considered a third item.

I would say that forsaking of sins is the consequence of conviciton of sins.

Identification.
Repentence.
Fellowship.

That's my experience and it is my joy to say I am saved in it.

This "judgment of sins" malarkey sounds perfectly awful.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

[/I]WN's (and Darby's before him) statement above is the basis for exclusivism. When one first hears this, the normal thought is the rejection of gross sins, as enumerated in scripture e.g. I Cor chapter 5. But ... who is without sin? And who makes up the list of sins? And who sets the limits to those sins? The exclusives were famous for using this "teaching gone wild" to lynch their rivals. There is just about no limit to what can be considered "sin," especially when the matter of "oneness of the body" is elevated way beyond the Spirit of God. Just expressing an opinion can qualify as a "divisive activity," thus worthy of censure.

Ohio, as I understand the reference is to gross sin which will affect members of the Body. If that sin isn't judged, division will arise. Thus affecting oneness in the Spirit.
Case and point, bearing false witness.

Terry