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[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Which will come first, dead child or dead terrorist? And, more importantly what will be the ratio of dead children to dead terrorists? What is the ratio of dead children to dead terrorsts by guns in America today? We can use that as a baseline. Oh, I forgot, you only care about the unborn. Sorry.

Why not outlaw internet trolls? How about cancer, make that illegal?

The point is please tell us how the US government is going to actually enforce this law?

You would have to outlaw 3d printers, censor the entire internet, and prohibit travel outside of the US. Is that what you are saying the govt should do? If not, how exactly does the US govt outlaw downloadable plans that would work on a 3d printer?

Also, if there is no rifling on these guns they are not going to be anymore accurate than a zip gun which anyone can make, and can make out of plastic if they choose. So then, how is this any worse than zip guns which are a tiny fraction of the cost of these things?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Why not outlaw internet trolls? How about cancer, make that illegal?

The point is please tell us how the US government is going to actually enforce this law?

You would have to outlaw 3d printers, censor the entire internet, and prohibit travel outside of the US. Is that what you are saying the govt should do? If not, how exactly does the US govt outlaw downloadable plans that would work on a 3d printer?

Also, if there is no rifling on these guns they are not going to be anymore accurate than a zip gun which anyone can make, and can make out of plastic if they choose. So then, how is this any worse than zip guns which are a tiny fraction of the cost of these things?

Great argument, bro. Why did Moses bother bringing the 10 commandments down the mountain? Those laws didn't stop murder or the other nine crimes on the tablets. By your reasoning God was just wasting our precious time by listing laws that were not enforceable. If children kill themselves or blow their hands off with defective 3-D plastic guns, that's their problem. Nothing society can do about it. You have come up with many, sometimes far-fetched ideas to solve all kinds of other problems on this forum. But, on this issue, you acquiesce helplessly . I wonder why?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Great argument, bro. Why did Moses bother bringing the 10 commandments down the mountain? Those laws didn't stop murder or the other nine crimes on the tablets. By your reasoning God was just wasting our precious time by listing laws that were not enforceable. If children kill themselves or blow their hands off with defective 3-D plastic guns, that's their problem. Nothing society can do about it. You have come up with many, sometimes far-fetched ideas to solve all kinds of other problems on this forum. But, on this issue, you acquiesce helplessly . I wonder why?

No one has convinced me it is an issue, that is why. If someone wants to sell the plastic gun then by all means we can have regulations to make sure it isn't going to blow up in your hand. But we sell all kinds of dangerous things, even things that do blow up in your hand (ask Pierre Paul on the Giants). A pdf file on the internet that gives instructions to a 3d printer is not one of them. When I look at these plastic guns they look stupid. They are bulky (so harder to hide). Don't work as well, cost thousands of dollars (when the cost of the printer is factored in) which is much, much more than a far more effective gun. They will almost certainly last far less than a typical metal gun, and probably jam and deform much easier. To my knowledge they don't have rifling so they are far less accurate. Like I said, you can make a zip gun for less than $100 which would work every bit as well as one of these. Also, they are not able to be snuck past a metal detector because you still need metal bullets and a metal firing pin. The idea that these are "ghost" guns is to me very disingenuous. If someone used a plastic gun made on a 3d printer I think it would be far easier to trace than any other gun (how many people have these printers? check the computer record, did they download the plans, did the printer print one of these). A zip gun is a real "ghost" gun and the US has no way to make them illegal. Therefore if I was the US govt I would prefer a criminal to use a 3d gun over a zip gun. So then is there any reason why a criminal would want one of these toy guns? I can't think why. How about an assassin or terrorist? Maybe the underwear bomber who had an IQ of 80, but can't think of anyone else.

On the flip side censoring the internet and searching everyones computers and flash drives seems an incredibly high price to pay to keep these out of the US, and even if you did that it wouldn't work.

And it is wrong to say that we cannot enforce laws against murder and theft.

[awareness]

As McConnell said in 1999:

[The president’s] decisions have led the United States Senate to its own critical crossroads. And now we must choose our path. We can do the right thing. Or we can lower our standards and allow [the president] to cling to public office ― regardless of the consequences to our nation, to our system of justice, and to our future generations...

So what will we do this day? Will we rise above or will we sink below? Will we condone this president’s conduct or will we condemn it? Will we change our standards or will we change our president?

I guess with Trump Mitch will change his standards.

[zeek]

In the last five days, President Trump has thanked Kim Jong-un of North Korea for his “nice letter,” reminisced about his “great meeting” with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia and offered to meet Iran’s president, Hassan Rouhani, without any preconditions.

During those same five days, the Treasury Department imposed sanctions on a Russian bank accused of helping North Korea with weapons-related activities. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo listed stringent preconditions for any engagement with Iran. And the administration’s top intelligence and law enforcement officials vowed to combat Russian interference in the midterm elections, while Senate Republicans pushed a bill that would impose harsh new sanctions on Moscow.

There is Mr. Trump’s foreign policy, and then there is the foreign policy of the rest of the Trump administration, backed by the Republican Party. This week, the two were openly at odds with each other. Be it Russia, NATO, Iran or North Korea, Mr. Trump’s staff and his party projected a radically different message than the president himself.

On Thursday, the White House produced an array of top officials to dramatize the (Russian) threat and explain the nation’s countermeasures. The president was conspicuously absent. Yet at a rally in Pennsylvania hours later, Mr. Trump dismissed the special counsel’s investigation of Russian interference as a “hoax” that was impeding his efforts to nurture a constructive relationship with the Russian president. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/03/u...39ries&ref=cta

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

There is Mr. Trump’s foreign policy, and then there is the foreign policy of the rest of the Trump administration, backed by the Republican Party. This week, the two were openly at odds with each other. Be it Russia, NATO, Iran or North Korea, Mr. Trump’s staff and his party projected a radically different message than the president himself.

On Thursday, the White House produced an array of top officials to dramatize the (Russian) threat and explain the nation’s countermeasures. The president was conspicuously absent. Yet at a rally in Pennsylvania hours later, Mr. Trump dismissed the special counsel’s investigation of Russian interference as a “hoax” that was impeding his efforts to nurture a constructive relationship with the Russian president. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/03/u...39ries&ref=cta

zeek's blind and willful ignorance on full display here colluding with the NYTimes.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

zeek's blind and willful ignorance on full display here colluding with the NYTimes.

When Trump says "no collusion," he means he's not colluding with his national intelligence, or even with his own aids.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

zeek's blind and willful ignorance on full display here colluding with the NYTimes.

Sorry, it is not collusion. Some top level Republican explained this to me. Apparently it is only collusion if you do it secretly, if you are very public and open about collusion and obstruction of justice, then it can't be a crime because you wouldn't have been so open and transparent about it.