Important Announcement regarding the Alternative Views Subforum

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

If you cared about the integrity of our democracy you would have been outraged at that. But, you weren't cuz you hate the Clintons. Hell, you hate all liberals and all things liberal as you have often expressed on ths thread. You're basically a theocrat, and fascist dictator types like Trump and Putin cater to you guys. So it's no surprise if you support the dismantling of the US's alliance with liberal democracies world-wide and a new alignment with Russia and other authoritarian states.

Interesting how you can denounce 60 million voters who elected Trump as fascist dictator types, claiming it is we Christians who are theocratic haters.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Interesting how you can denounce 60 million voters who elected Trump as fascist dictator types, claiming it is we Christians who are theocratic haters.

No. You misread the post. Try again. The fascist-dictator types are manipulating public opinion. The "theocrat" descriptor I applied to you alone. Unlike yourself I try to avoid sweeping generalization. Not all conservatives are the same just like not all liberals are the same. In fact, none of them are the same. If you dig down deep, political identities fall away. No two people are the same.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

No. You misread the post. Try again. The fascist-dictator types are manipulating public opinion. The "theocrat" descriptor I applied to you alone. Unlike yourself I try to avoid sweeping generalization. Not all conservatives are the same just like not all liberals are the same. In fact, none of them are the same. If you dig down deep, political identities fall away. No two people are the same.

Read what a theocrat is. Nothing I have written demands that. Today Sharia Law is the closest thing we have to theocracy. I support Trump for secular policy, without any religious demand on him. You are defined by "sweeping generalization" whether you admit it or not.

Look at who is today defining and manipulating public opinion -- it is the media, Hollywood, the deep state, and the Democrats.

Of course, no two people are identical, we have DNA do we not? But the LEFT you are apart of is characterized by a hatred of Trump, and look at what happens when someone like Kanye decides to differ. Look at how Omarosa is now their heroine. The media defines people -- loving or hating them -- by their connection with Trump.

You are doing the same with me. You are unable to objectively discuss the facts of issues, rather you espouse the media line wholeheartedly. Case in point was Charlottesville. You joined the media craze in deciding that Trump and all his supporters are affirmed racists, nazis, bigots, supremacists, KKK, etc. You have no evidence of this -- but neither do you need it -- because you just swallow the media message without discernment. Apparently you lost all your discernment when you left the faith -- yet you condemn all others like me for what you do. Romans 2.1

Look at how many Dems and Repubs have flipped their position just in the last decade in order to support Obama Progressivism and oppose Trump. At one time many supported secure borders, wanted a wall, opposed gay marriage, opposed abortion, supported marriage, embassy in Jerusalem, strong military, support for police, support for ICE, etc ... the list goes on and on.

You many say that there is diversity on both sides, but on major issues the Left are like lemmings headed towards the cliff. To be a conservative today often one must be willing to be an outcast from their own society.

[Ohio]

Here's a peek into the mind of a liberal -- only 3 minutes long

https://youtu.be/ybJCUvJwSkA

"If it sounds like a diabolical puppet show, that's because it is!"

I dare any of my liberal friends to rebut this.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

To be a conservative today often one must be willing to be an outcast from their own society.

Goodness brother. I don't want any part of making you feel like an outcast. I'm sorry for every time I've made you feel that way.

I'll try to do better. That's why in general to be congenial out in public it's best to stay away from discussing politics (and religion).

These days are days of extreme division. Passions are high. To me it looks like a pressure cooker, that's about to blow.

But didn't Jesus live in very divided times. In Matthew the crowds from all over are following Jesus. So he goes up on a mountain and speaks to "the crowds." This is after he healed all that were brought to him.

So the diverse and divided crowds were hanging on his every word. What did he teach, among many other wonderful things Matthew records him as teaching :

But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?

Jesus wasn't for anyone being outcasts. Don't let politics make you feel that way brother.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Here's a peek into the mind of a liberal -- only 3 minutes long

https://youtu.be/ybJCUvJwSkA

"If it sounds like a diabolical puppet show, that's because it is!"

I dare any of my liberal friends to rebut this.

This is a propagandistic attempt to tar a large segment of the American population with the vandalism of one or possibly two individuals. It's the same kind of over-generalization that you condemn when the mainstream media does it. And yeah Hollywood celebrities shouldn't encourage vandalism as neither should anybody else.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

This is a propagandistic attempt to tar a large segment of the American population with the vandalism of one or possibly two individuals. It's the same kind of over-generalization that you condemn when the mainstream media does it. And yeah Hollywood celebrities shouldn't encourage vandalism as neither should anybody else.

One or two individuals?

How about all those who supported this action? You conveniently forget about them. Of course.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

One or two individuals?

How about all those who supported this action? You conveniently forget about them. Of course.

How many were there and how exactly did they support the perpetrators?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Here's a peek into the mind of a liberal -- only 3 minutes long

https://youtu.be/ybJCUvJwSkA

"If it sounds like a diabolical puppet show, that's because it is!"

I dare any of my liberal friends to rebut this.

Thanks for a peek into the mind of a liberal. I know that it was just a peek, and there's lots of other scary stuff in there, but the peek allowed us to see that they are creeps. Oooooo, those scary creeps! And you can spot 'em. Every creepy person is a liberal. You can count on it. Even creepy conservatives, so called.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Read what a theocrat is. Nothing I have written demands that. Today Sharia Law is the closest thing we have to theocracy. I support Trump for secular policy, without any religious demand on him. You are defined by "sweeping generalization" whether you admit it or not.

Look at who is today defining and manipulating public opinion -- it is the media, Hollywood, the deep state, and the Democrats.

Of course, no two people are identical, we have DNA do we not? But the LEFT you are apart of is characterized by a hatred of Trump, and look at what happens when someone like Kanye decides to differ. Look at how Omarosa is now their heroine. The media defines people -- loving or hating them -- by their connection with Trump.

You are doing the same with me. You are unable to objectively discuss the facts of issues, rather you espouse the media line wholeheartedly. Case in point was Charlottesville. You joined the media craze in deciding that Trump and all his supporters are affirmed racists, nazis, bigots, supremacists, KKK, etc. You have no evidence of this -- but neither do you need it -- because you just swallow the media message without discernment. Apparently you lost all your discernment when you left the faith -- yet you condemn all others like me for what you do. Romans 2.1

Look at how many Dems and Repubs have flipped their position just in the last decade in order to support Obama Progressivism and oppose Trump. At one time many supported secure borders, wanted a wall, opposed gay marriage, opposed abortion, supported marriage, embassy in Jerusalem, strong military, support for police, support for ICE, etc ... the list goes on and on.

You many say that there is diversity on both sides, but on major issues the Left are like lemmings headed towards the cliff. To be a conservative today often one must be willing to be an outcast from their own society.

Well I'm happy to learn that you're not a Theocrat. Cuz I was under the impression that you voted for Donald Trump mainly because in order to get elected he said he would nominate judges and support legislation favored by your brand of Christianity including discriminating against lgbtq people, ending women's right to choose to have abortions, and widespread repression of non-believers. That sounds like a Theocratic legislative and judicial agenda to me. If you weren't a blind partisan you would see that both sides of the political spectrum are manipulating public opinion. It's ironic to me that you accuse me of being unable to objectively discuss facts because when I post facts you don't respond. You just skip over those posts. Like when I showed that the right-wing extremists have committed far more violence than antifa. You just ignored the post. Oh by the way that lemmings story that you used as a metaphor is fake news.

Lemmings have become the subject of a widely popular misconception that they commit mass suicide when they migrate by jumping off cliffs. This urban myth became widespread after this behavior was shown in the Walt Disney documentary White Wilderness (film) in 1958. However, the animals in the film are not wild animals jumping off the cliff voluntarily, rather they were bought by the producers and pushed over the edge of the cliff. Instead of suicidal behavior, what explains the drastic fluctuations in population size are environmental factors such as whether the right kind of snow is available. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemming#Misconceptions

If it were true you would be a lemming living in a glass house throwing a stone.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Read what a theocrat is. Nothing I have written demands that. Today Sharia Law is the closest thing we have to theocracy. I support Trump for secular policy, without any religious demand on him. You are defined by "sweeping generalization" whether you admit it or not.

Although this thread is "Politics and the Church" it seems to me that "Politics and Religion" should be addressed here as well.

Personally I feel the whole idea that the US govt can be separated from religion is bogus. Whether or not you agree with Sharia Law the one thing I think everyone should be able to see is that admitting your religion is part of how your society and govt are run is honest.

I consider those abortionists who claim "freedom of religion" are simply dishonest. A promiscuous lifestyle is a religion. In the OT the priests of Baal and the priests of Molech were the ones that did the abortions. I interpret Baal to indicate the worship of your career and Molech to be the worship of fornication. Therefore legalizing abortion is the establishment of these religions and is prohibited by the constitution. The federal government has violated their jurisdiction when the Supreme court made this ruling.

Everyone lives their life in a way that values certain things and that can be seen as the things they worship and sacrifice for. If you claim my worship of God violates the freedoms given to you by the constitution the remedy is not to allow your worship of your career or fornication to violate my freedoms.

So then, "freedom of religion" indicates that our constitution provides an opportunity for everyone to be a citizen regardless of their religion, to practice that religion, speak about that, worship, meet, etc. Likewise they can vote. It doesn't mean that our govt is anti religion, or atheistic, nor does it mean that those who are elected have to deny or hide their religion.

The Federal govt has no right to establish a religion, and that is what legalizing abortion does. Instead this matter should be decided by each and every state.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Although this thread is "Politics and the Church" it seems to me that "Politics and Religion" should be addressed here as well.

Personally I feel the whole idea that the US govt can be separated from religion is bogus. Whether or not you agree with Sharia Law the one thing I think everyone should be able to see is that admitting your religion is part of how your society and govt are run is honest.

I consider those abortionists who claim "freedom of religion" are simply dishonest. A promiscuous lifestyle is a religion. In the OT the priests of Baal and the priests of Molech were the ones that did the abortions. I interpret Baal to indicate the worship of your career and Molech to be the worship of fornication. Therefore legalizing abortion is the establishment of these religions and is prohibited by the constitution. The federal government has violated their jurisdiction when the Supreme court made this ruling.

Everyone lives their life in a way that values certain things and that can be seen as the things they worship and sacrifice for. If you claim my worship of God violates the freedoms given to you by the constitution the remedy is not to allow your worship of your career or fornication to violate my freedoms.

So then, "freedom of religion" indicates that our constitution provides an opportunity for everyone to be a citizen regardless of their religion, to practice that religion, speak about that, worship, meet, etc. Likewise they can vote. It doesn't mean that our govt is anti religion, or atheistic, nor does it mean that those who are elected have to deny or hide their religion.

The Federal govt has no right to establish a religion, and that is what legalizing abortion does. Instead this matter should be decided by each and every state.

This is basically the argument of Francis Schaeffer that secular humanism is religion. As you have framed it, it's an argument against the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment and as such an argument against religious freedom. Perhaps it's impossible to be a Christian partisan and a small d democrat at the same time. If this is the way Christians think their only limits will be scriptural supports for subjection to authority or and the rule of law. Pluralism will always be an affront to the absolute truth they believe that only they possess.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

This is basically the argument of Francis Schaeffer that secular humanism is religion. As you have framed it, it's an argument against the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment and as such an argument against religious freedom. Perhaps it's impossible to be a Christian partisan and a small d democrat at the same time. If this is the way Christians think their only limits will be scriptural supports for subjection to authority or and the rule of law. Pluralism will always be an affront to the absolute truth they believe that only they possess.

What is impossible is to pretend that your beliefs and values don't shape your politics.

Likewise, it is ridiculous to say that an atheist doesn't worship something or is somehow immune from religion or that "freedom of religion" implies that the constitution supports atheism.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Although this thread is "Politics and the Church" it seems to me that "Politics and Religion" should be addressed here as well.

Personally I feel the whole idea that the US govt can be separated from religion is bogus. Whether or not you agree with Sharia Law the one thing I think everyone should be able to see is that admitting your religion is part of how your society and govt are run is honest.

I consider those abortionists who claim "freedom of religion" are simply dishonest. A promiscuous lifestyle is a religion. In the OT the priests of Baal and the priests of Molech were the ones that did the abortions. I interpret Baal to indicate the worship of your career and Molech to be the worship of fornication. Therefore legalizing abortion is the establishment of these religions and is prohibited by the constitution. The federal government has violated their jurisdiction when the Supreme court made this ruling.

Everyone lives their life in a way that values certain things and that can be seen as the things they worship and sacrifice for. If you claim my worship of God violates the freedoms given to you by the constitution the remedy is not to allow your worship of your career or fornication to violate my freedoms.

So then, "freedom of religion" indicates that our constitution provides an opportunity for everyone to be a citizen regardless of their religion, to practice that religion, speak about that, worship, meet, etc. Likewise they can vote. It doesn't mean that our govt is anti religion, or atheistic, nor does it mean that those who are elected have to deny or hide their religion.

The Federal govt has no right to establish a religion, and that is what legalizing abortion does. Instead this matter should be decided by each and every state.

How about the matter should be decided by each and every woman?

The rest of your post, where you take it on yourself to define religions for other people, willy-nilly is : whack-a-noodle.

Did you mean it to be that way? Are you playing with us?

[zeek]

Thanks to everyone who made the cancellation of Trump's parade possible!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Thanks to everyone who made the cancellation of Trump's parade possible!

You can thank Trump. Cuz he cancelled it, he says in a tweet this morning (prolly on the toilet):

"The local politicians who run Washington, D.C. (poorly) know a windfall when they see it. When asked to give us a price for holding a great celebratory military parade, they wanted a number so ridiculously high that I cancelled it. Never let someone hold you up! I will instead..." - 4:57am August 17, 2018

....attend the big parade already scheduled at Andrews Air Force Base on a different date, & go to the Paris parade, celebrating the end of the War, on November 11th. Maybe we will do something next year in D.C. when the cost comes WAY DOWN. Now we can buy some more jet fighters!
7:10 AM - Aug 17, 2018 (maybe on the toilet again)

Toilet tweets? Whatever will we do with them? It is kinda fun keeping up with our clown president. Who will he attack today? Oh wait, he attacked "politicians who run Washington, D.C. (poorly)" ; he attacked everyone in Washington. But the day just got started. Who else will he attack today? It's hard to keep up with.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

How about the matter should be decided by each and every woman?

Actually we are a democracy, so the matter should be decided by every man and woman. Second, if you read my post which your response indicates you didn't, I said this should be decided by the State, not the Supreme court. If all the residents in the State vote to legalize abortion in that State then that would be constitutional. It is difficult to believe based on various polling data that at least 40% of states wouldn't legalize this. So then if a woman lived in a state where this was illegal, say Mississippi, she would simply drive an hour into Georgia where it might be legal. Doesn't seem like such an inconvenience to uphold our constitution.

The woman has the right to decide whether or not to have sex. She has the right to decide whether or not to use contraception. She has the right to decide whether or not to live in a state where it is illegal or legal and she has the right to travel to a state where it is legal. So how is any of this violating a woman's right to choose?

Originally Posted by awareness

The rest of your post, where you take it on yourself to define religions for other people, willy-nilly is : whack-a-noodle.

Did you mean it to be that way? Are you playing with us?

I define religion as a lifestyle. Everyone has a lifestyle, everyone sacrifices for something, worships something.

What is whack a doodle is this pretense that since my beliefs and faith and values shape my politics that somehow they are unconstitutional or that this somehow indicates a support for theocracy.

Every single person has a god, even the atheists. It may be their stomach, it may be Jehovah, or Jesus or Mohammed, or it may be their career, or money, or pleasure, or fornication, etc.

Consider the bank robber, murderer who thinks he doesn't care about God and is atheistic/agnostic. Why are you robbing and murdering? Obviously he values the money in a bank above human life and social norms. That is his god.

[awareness]

Okay bro ZNP I get it. Everybody is religious.

That's a far cry from the definition you've used in the past, that you were so fond of :

Jas_1:27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.