The Mormon Church is "The Church"?

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by aron

The LC resembles the RCC and LDS in that The Church is their end-all and be-all. At least Luther and Wesley got that right - salvation is through faith in the name of Jesus Christ, not loyalty to the Hive.

Christianity's not the problem or the solution. Sin is the problem and believing in the name of Jesus is the solution.

That's right, Aron....cut right through the baloney....believing in the name of Jesus is the solution....the Father doesn't put any other qualifiers on us....but imputes righteousness on us for our trust in His beloved Son....additions by the LC or anyone else are shackles and chains.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

That's right, Aron....cut right through the baloney....believing in the name of Jesus is the solution....the Father doesn't put any other qualifiers on us....but imputes righteousness on us for our trust in His beloved Son....additions by the LC or anyone else are shackles and chains.

byHismercy,

How about the additions of the writer of Hebrews?

Consider this....

"For when we sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fervor of fire, which is to consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without compassion on the testimony of two or three witnesses. By how much do you think he will be thought worthy of worse punishment who has trampled underfoot the Son of God and has considered the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing and has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said "Vengeance is Mine; I will repay"; and again "The Lord will judge His people". It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Hebrews 10:29-31

This word, is aimed at correcting any thought or idea that God is so merciful, and that His words of grace so cover His chosen, that while the unbelievers will suffer the punishment of His indignation, they who had been sealed with His Spirit's seal will somehow escape.

Baloney?

This word is spoken to believers byHismercy. It is not an easy word, not a comfortable word, not a comforting word, but it is His word and we cannot ignore it.

Drake

[aron]

Originally Posted by Drake

byHismercy,

How about the additions of the writer of Hebrews?

Consider this....

"For when we sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fervor of fire, which is to consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without compassion on the testimony of two or three witnesses. By how much do you think he will be thought worthy of worse punishment who has trampled underfoot the Son of God and has considered the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing and has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said "Vengeance is Mine; I will repay"; and again "The Lord will judge His people". It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Hebrews 10:29-31

This word, is aimed at correcting any thought or idea that God is so merciful, and that His words of grace so cover His chosen, that while the unbelievers will suffer the punishment of His indignation, they who had been sealed with His Spirit's seal will somehow escape.

Baloney?

This word is spoken to believers byHismercy. It is not an easy word, not a comfortable word, not a comforting word, but it is His word and we cannot ignore it.

Drake

The word you quoted says, "if we sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth". . . why did Witness Lee dun the flock for cash to fund his son Timothy's business (Daystar), even after knowing that this had already caused so much harm already (Taiwan & Seattle World's Fair 1962)? Why did he let Son Philip remain in a position of responsibility even after knowing this had caused much stumbling to those for whom Christ died?

Why did Lee continue in his behaviours after causing so much harm, and why do LSM operatives continue in whitewashing his criminal deeds (i.e. money-laundering)? Where's the "fearful expectation of judgment" evidenced, o indignant one? And then you try to intimidate others?? I'm more worried about facing the Lord if I don't say something.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by aron

Where's the "fearful expectation of judgment" evidenced, o indignant one? And then you try to intimidate others?? I'm more worried about facing the Lord if I don't say something.

"o Indignant one"?

Better read those verses again aron and pay close attention to who is described there as indignant..... and then have a closer read of Matthew 5:22 and talk to the Lord to resolve the on-going problem you have with certain brothers... while you are still on the way... before its too late and you have to meet the Lord at His BEMA in your present condition.

Now, awareness got us going on the wind track.... and LofT is trying to bring it back... what do you have to share about the topic of this thread?

Drake

[aron]

Originally Posted by Drake

Better read those verses again aron and pay close attention to who is described there as indignant..... and then have a closer read of Matthew 5:22 and talk to the Lord to resolve the on-going problem you have with certain brothers... while you are still on the way... before its too late and you have to meet the Lord at His BEMA in your present condition.

My present condition is to point out the discrepancy between the Bible and the LC of Nee and Lee. I have pointed them out, and somehow this is construed as an offense against God. Rather I think the offense is to keep one's mouth shut, yet knowing of the problems. Witness Lee wanted us to forgive his messy kitchen yet he continually pointed out deficiencies in others.

Either God raised Jesus from the dead on the third day or no. Either you believe or no. This is the gospel message. Not the "recovered church".

[aron]

Originally Posted by Drake

Do not be swayed by voices in this forum that slander brothers in a very personal way and then excuse the consequences by teaching that God will overlook that sin because they believed in the Son. Scripture shows otherwise.

Witness Lee and his ilk the Blendeds have slandered brothers and sisters in a very personal way and we had to passively sit there and absorb the curse. No longer.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by aron

My present condition is to point out the discrepancy between the Bible and the LC of Nee and Lee. I have pointed them out, and somehow this is construed as an offense against God. Rather I think the offense is to keep one's mouth shut, yet knowing of the problems. Witness Lee wanted us to forgive his messy kitchen yet he continually pointed out deficiencies in others.

Either God raised Jesus from the dead on the third day or no. Either you believe or no. This is the gospel message. Not the "recovered church".

No brother, it is not about disagreement or discrepancy, and we should be diligent to examine the scriptures against any mans teaching. All that is fine and even healthy.

However, you and a few others have not only crossed the line of reasonable and reputable disagreement, but are well into the ditch of hate-mongering of brothers in the Lord. Gleefully you engage in name calling, reckless abandonment, and neglect of Matthew 5:22, recounting the sins of others while excusing your own sins, using the name of God and the things of Christ to justify your words and deeds against members of the Body of Christ. In so passing judgment on others for their sins, weaknesses, and shortcomings in this age you presume to wrest it from the hands of the One who will judge righteously His house, not yours, in the next. And your defense? Others before me did the same thing....

...... well, good luck with that.

Drake

[aron]

Originally Posted by Drake

No brother, it is not about disagreement or discrepancy, and we should be diligent to examine the scriptures against any mans teaching. All that is fine and even healthy.

However, you and a few others have not only crossed the line of reasonable and reputable disagreement, but are well into the ditch of hate-mongering of brothers in the Lord. Gleefully you engage in name calling, reckless abandonment, and neglect of Matthew 5:22, recounting the sins of others while excusing your own sins, using the name of God and the things of Christ to justify your words and deeds against members of the Body of Christ. In so passing judgment on others for their sins, weaknesses, and shortcomings in this age you presume to wrest it from the hands of the One who will judge righteously His house, not yours, in the next. And your defense? Others before me did the same thing....

At least I'm not charging 50 bucks a head like your so-called apostle did.

I like the term "reasonable". It reminds me of the terms "genuine" and "proper"; the true meanings of which could only be sussed out by "the oracle" who had "the mantle". I'm pointing out the absurdity of the LC position. It's built on sensory experience of rhythmic calling and chanting and shouting and the commensurate thought-repression. If that makes you uncomfortable too bad. Maybe you should think about why that is so.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

No brother, it is not about disagreement or discrepancy, and we should be diligent to examine the scriptures against any mans teaching. All that is fine and even healthy.

However, you and a few others have not only crossed the line of reasonable and reputable disagreement, but are well into the ditch of hate-mongering of brothers in the Lord. Gleefully you engage in name calling, reckless abandonment, and neglect of Matthew 5:22, recounting the sins of others while excusing your own sins, using the name of God and the things of Christ to justify your words and deeds against members of the Body of Christ. In so passing judgment on others for their sins, weaknesses, and shortcomings in this age you presume to wrest it from the hands of the One who will judge righteously His house, not yours, in the next. And your defense? Others before me did the same thing....

...... well, good luck with that.

Drake

Drake, I know you wont respond to my posts because I have exposed LSM's deceitful activities, including those in the Midwest, but I would only ask the reader:

How is it "hate-mongering" to warn others about the dangers of LSM? These ones come to this forum after an internet search and ask questions. Do not ex-members have a responsibility to warn others?

Where was Drake when Lee and sons damaged so many trusting saints? Where was Drake when Phillip Lee was molesting the sisters who volunteered at LSM? Where was Drake when the saints' life savings were wiped out by investing in the Daystar motor home boondoggle? Is not the top priority of every real shepherd to protect the church of God? Why has Drake made it his life's mission to protect a ministry which damages people in the name of God?

Instead of threatening the forum shepherds with biblical judgments, Drake should read about the biblical warnings about evil shepherds.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

However, you and a few others have not only crossed the line of reasonable and reputable disagreement, but are well into the ditch of hate-mongering of brothers in the Lord. Gleefully you engage in name calling, reckless abandonment, and neglect of Matthew 5:22, recounting the sins of others while excusing your own sins, using the name of God and the things of Christ to justify your words and deeds against members of the Body of Christ. In so passing judgment on others for their sins, weaknesses, and shortcomings in this age you presume to wrest it from the hands of the One who will judge righteously His house, not yours, in the next. And your defense? Others before me did the same thing....

Though I am admittedly sarcastic at times, and for good reason, there is no "Gleefully you engage in name calling, reckless abandonment," as you say. Many faithful LC members have been hurt by those at LSM whom you protect, many of them, young and old, and yet you still refuse to repent or take ownership for any of it.

It's hard to believe that you could casually dismiss all of their pain and suffering. Let me remind you what our Lord said once about a millstone.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Drake

No brother, it is not about disagreement or discrepancy, and we should be diligent to examine the scriptures against any mans teaching. All that is fine and even healthy.

However, you and a few others have not only crossed the line of reasonable and reputable disagreement, but are well into the ditch of hate-mongering of brothers in the Lord. Gleefully you engage in name calling, reckless abandonment, and neglect of Matthew 5:22, recounting the sins of others while excusing your own sins, using the name of God and the things of Christ to justify your words and deeds against members of the Body of Christ. In so passing judgment on others for their sins, weaknesses, and shortcomings in this age you presume to wrest it from the hands of the One who will judge righteously His house, not yours, in the next. And your defense? Others before me did the same thing....

...... well, good luck with that.

Drake

What about you? You crossed the same line and did the same thing you accuse others of doing. Hypocrisy and condescension.
.

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Drake

byHismercy,

How about the additions of the writer of Hebrews?

Consider this....

"For when we sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fervor of fire, which is to consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without compassion on the testimony of two or three witnesses. By how much do you think he will be thought worthy of worse punishment who has trampled underfoot the Son of God and has considered the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing and has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said "Vengeance is Mine; I will repay"; and again "The Lord will judge His people". It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Hebrews 10:29-31

This word, is aimed at correcting any thought or idea that God is so merciful, and that His words of grace so cover His chosen, that while the unbelievers will suffer the punishment of His indignation, they who had been sealed with His Spirit's seal will somehow escape.

Baloney?

This word is spoken to believers byHismercy. It is not an easy word, not a comfortable word, not a comforting word, but it is His word and we cannot ignore it.

Drake

Drake, Gods' word is living and operative in those who believe, Jesus the Christ is the Word of God Himself, and everything in the word is breathed out by the living God, we will live by the word.....I know I wasn't referring to His word when I used the word baloney, but I want you and everyone else to know also. I was referring to doctrine of devils that come out of Lees' ministry. It's a bunch of baloney.

Are you possibly equating Lees' doctrines with Gods' word?

[Drake]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

Drake, Gods' word is living and operative in those who believe, Jesus the Christ is the Word of God Himself, and everything in the word is breathed out by the living God, we will live by the word.....I know I wasn't referring to His word when I used the word baloney, but I want you and everyone else to know also. I was referring to doctrine of devils that come out of Lees' ministry. It's a bunch of baloney.

Are you possibly equating Lees' doctrines with Gods' word?

Bhm,

You appeared to suggest that any teaching about punishment of the believer was baloney, shackles, and chains. You said that God imputs righteousness on us for our trust in His Son.... and you said that the Father places no further qualifiers on us

I provided you a scripture that shows clearly God will judge and punish even believers... that the righteousness through our belief in His Son does not eliminate the judgement in Hebrews or Matthew 5:22.

Please consider those verses in the context of your beliefs above. I think you will find the two are incompatible.

Do not be swayed by voices in this forum that slander brothers in a very personal way and then excuse the consequences by teaching that God will overlook that sin because they believed in the Son. Scripture shows otherwise.

Drake

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Drake

Bhm,

You appeared to suggest that any teaching about punishment of the believer was baloney, shackles, and chains.

Drake

Drake, that never happened. I do not recall reading anything in this thread regarding punishment of the believer. I never referred to punishment of the believer. I am sorry you misunderstood me. Maybe the smoke got in your eyes?

[Drake]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

Drake, that never happened. I do not recall reading anything in this thread regarding punishment of the believer. I never referred to punishment of the believer. I am sorry you misunderstood me. Maybe the smoke got in your eyes?

“Worse punishment” in the Hebrews verses I quoted.. I even bolded it so it would not be missed.

Well then bhm, what was your point about righteousness comes by our trust in the Son, and the Father has no additional qualifiers, etc. and what was the baloney that Aron cut through that so pleases you. He knows what he meant, but do you know what he meant? I know what he meant. .... but you are an independent thinker and don’t need to ride anyone’s coattails to make your own point so please clarify this....

What qualifiers? Qualifiers for what? Are there not additional qualifiers for entrance into the millennial kingdom? If not, then what is the meaning of Matt 5:22?

Thanks
Drake

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

“Worse punishment” in the Hebrews verses I quoted.. I even bolded it so it would not be missed.

Well then bhm, what was your point about righteousness comes by our trust in the Son, and the Father has no additional qualifiers, etc. and what was the baloney that Aron cut through that so pleases you. He knows what he meant, but do you know what he meant? I know what he meant. .... but you are an independent thinker and don’t need to ride anyone’s coattails to make your own point so please clarify this....

What qualifiers? Qualifiers for what? Are there not additional qualifiers for entrance into the millennial kingdom? If not, then what is the meaning of Matt 5:22?

Thanks
Drake

Drake loves to chastise young believers emerging from the bondage of LSM's legalities, warning them with the weight of bolded scripture in order to silence those asking for assistance.

ByHisMercy you are not the first precious child of God to suffer judgmental backlash from LSMers while you by His mercy are seeing thru the smoke and mirrors what LSM is really all about.

This has been happening for decades. Unfortunately I viewed it from afar for 30 years and believed W. Lee when I heard his lies about those who spoke against the corruption at LSM. He adamantly instructed us that he was suffering persecution as a faithful follower of Jesus. What a falsehood!

Then I witnessed it first hand during the Ohio quarantines 10 years ago. The Lord shined a bright light on their pathetic ways. They damaged and divided every church in the name of oneness. Can you believe it? It was not the "oneness of the Spirit" which the Bible speaks of, but a twisted oneness with Witness Lee and his ministry which they demand of all.