RE: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by awareness

And even those who have left refer it as "The LORD's Recovery." Just look at the title of this thread.

I ask again : Is it now?

It is and it isn't. It depends how you define the word "Lord".

In Old Testament times, the Jews were constantly being seduced by foreign gods. One example of this is when Queen Jezebel introduced the false Canaanite god "Baal" into Jewish culture.

"Baal" literally translates into the word "Lord".

For the Jews, it was like a frog in boiling water. Slowly the bait and switch took place and before they knew it, they were worshipping the wrong "Lord". Yet I imagine they were still using the same terminology in worship.

Christians aren't immune to this. Many praise the Lord Jesus with their lips but their hearts are far away from him because they are worshipping the wrong "Lord".

So is the Lord's Recovery the Lord's Recovery? Well, yes and no.

Test all things!

[MrsFreedom]

The reason I called it the Lord's recovery in my letter was that I was directly speaking to the people in that system.

I knew I had one shot to reach them and hope they could hear what I had to say.

If I started out, "Dear Saints in the man-made system called the Lord's recovery..." I would have lost them. I was probably going to lose them anyway, but I wanted to at least try to reach them.

I no longer believe that "the Lord's recovery" is what I thought it was. For me personally when I was in it, I really believed that God was recovering christians from all over. The "ministry" and things "saints" said eventually caused me to realize it was just another system.

My use of the LC lingo throughout the entire letter was purely to reach the people still in it.

~J

[Jo S]

I think or hope most people understand that. We tend to get a bit overly philosophical here from time to time.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Jo S

I think or hope most people understand that. We tend to get a bit overly philosophical here from time to time.

Well, Harold does. Not me.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Jo S

It is and it isn't. It depends how you define the word "Lord".

In Old Testament times, the Jews were constantly being seduced by foreign gods. One example of this is when Queen Jezebel introduced the false Canaanite god "Baal" into Jewish culture.

"Baal" literally translates into the word "Lord".

For the Jews, it was like a frog in boiling water. Slowly the bait and switch took place and before they knew it, they were worshipping the wrong "Lord". Yet I imagine they were still using the same terminology in worship.

Christians aren't immune to this. Many praise the Lord Jesus with their lips but their hearts are far away from him because they are worshipping the wrong "Lord".

So is the Lord's Recovery the Lord's Recovery? Well, yes and no.

Test all things!

I hadn't thought of it that way. I can see how the Lord's Recovery is a empty claim, meant to lead the saints with a non-lord Lord.

If they were honest they'd call it Witness Lee's Recovery. After all, in 1994 Lee admitted that most of what he did for 32 yrs in America was by his natural man. As far as I was concerned by that time he didn't have to tell me that. I saw then, and now see, that just about all of the official line local church is natural man driven.

Years ago I saw that clearly when I discovered the elders were seeding the meetings, thereby subverting the Holy Spirit. It then took on the appearance of a cult to me. But I was only seeing the tip of iceberg at that time.

In truth, the whole official-line local church, the whole kit and caboodle, is natural man driven.

That's not to say that the saints didn't/don't touch the Lord in there, but they are following another guide than the Lord ... and the guide is Witness Lee.

So properly, it's a Witness Lees' Recovery.

[aron]

Originally Posted by awareness

So properly, it's a Witness Lees' Recovery.

If so then it's not Recovery but Continuation and Extension of Degradation. Kind of like FTTXB - it's rather FTTXD.

Speaking of the word "properly", Witness Lee used it a lot. What was "proper" and "genuine" and what was not. But what was the basis of such assessments? Personal preference, bias and self-interest.

There were two related mistakes at work here, both derived from missing the thrust of Jesus' teachings.

1. Thinking that the "beam" was in the other person's eye while yours only had a "splinter". This is backwards. It is your eye that has the worst impediment. This resulted in a teaching where "they" were deformed religion, the Mystery Harlot Babylon, while "we" were Isarael, in whom God sees no iniquity. What was the basis?

2. Jesus taught that when you are invited to a feast, take the least place. WN and WL tried to claim first place for themselves and their assemblies. Any problems or lacks were always with "Christianity" or those not under WN and WL, while their flocks were "real" and "legitimate".

On what basis was this said? Merely the wish that it were so. Better for book sales. So problems were unaddressed, growing. Look at what was posted yesterday on the Casteel FB page. Reports of things that are finally coming to light. The WL encomiums speak of messages given, books sold, churches established. They don't speak of lives damaged. But now people are talking about it.

May the Lord heal, restore, comfort, encourage, and yes recover. "Until we all arrive..."

[Cal]

There no reliable way of proving that the movement is uniquely "THE Lord's" or "THE Recovery" in the manner the LR says it is. Therefore doing so is presumptuous, reckless and irresponsible. They are putting words in the Lord's mouth.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Igzy

There no reliable way of proving that the movement is uniquely "THE Lord's" or "THE Recovery" in the manner the LR says it is. Therefore doing so is presumptuous, reckless and irresponsible. They are putting words in the Lord's mouth.

All things are the Lord's. Nothing has come into being that has come into being apart from Him.

Saying it is "the Lord's" recovery takes away any issue they can have with what the Lord does with what is His. Who are you to judge another person for what He does with what belongs to Him? If the Lord wants to use it as a cautionary tale on what can happen, that is His option. If the Lord wants to hold them up as an example to all the Lord's believers about what happens when you stumble the brothers that is up to Him. They cannot complain because their testimony has always been that it is "the Lord's" recovery.

[aron]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

If the Lord wants to hold them up as an example to all the Lord's believers about what happens when you stumble the brothers that is up to Him. They cannot complain because their testimony has always been that it is "the Lord's" recovery.

Even as an attendee I felt it was a tad hopeful and presumptuous to label your latest actions as "The Lord's move" (aka "The Lord's Move to Europe, Asia" &c). Or my all-time favourite, that what you're doing is "Central Lane of the Divine Economy". Oh really, says who?

As ZNP says, perhaps recent events are also "the Lord's move" to expose what isn't His, that maybe those "high peaks" weren't quite so high as they were claimed to be.

[UntoHim]

Facebook posting by Jo Casteel June 25th 2019
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From a saint in the church in Fullerton,
“The elders in the church in Fullerton announced a sexual predators sin in the meeting last lord’s day. There were 12 accusations against him and they waited 6 years to expose him. I think your Facebook post helped to get it done.”

THIS. THIS IS WHY I’M SPEAKING UP. After releasing my letter I have had report after report coming in from saints from all over regarding hidden abuses.

I have had to be in touch with the police due to learning so many coverups in the Lord’s recovery. Some are from years ago, some are current. I have learned of more cases of assault on sisters than I would ever want to know. It’s been horrible having stories flooding in from the many abuses.

Want to know how many cases have been handled? FELLOWSHIP. Were the police called? NOPE. Were the other saints warned about the perpetrator? NOPE.

This culture has got to stop. It started with the covering up of Witness Lee’s sons Philip Lee and Timothy Lee. Our history is founded on a culture of covering up. The end justifies the means...

And to all the saints who say there are problems everywhere: Most groups are not claiming to be God’s move on earth AND the LORD’s recovery AND to be Philadelphia AND that they are becoming the New Jerusalem. With grand claims like that, comes grand responsibility.

And to all the saints asking me if I have sins. You bet I do. I am and was a top sinner. But I have never claimed to be the acting God on earth, or a deputy authority, commander in chief of the Lord’s army, the wise master builder, or the minister of the age. Someone in that position also shoulders great responsibility with the people under their care.

And to all the saints saying THEIR locality is just so amazing and reports things: GREAT. That’s a start. But what about the countless localities that haven’t and don’t? What about the feeling in the Body? What about compassion for the many who have been wounded in this system? You are a part of the problem if you are just happy about your locality and don’t have a feeling for what occurs in other localities.

The elders in our own locality made it clear they wouldn’t fellowship with Greg and I about any abuses that didn’t occur locally. They can get together and fellowship about the work on the campus regionally, but can’t discuss abuses that occur regionally. THIS IS A PROBLEM. This culture needs to change.

I’m in fellowship with several brave elders from other localities who are hoping to be an agent of change in this system. If the dear elders who are helping to shepherd the dear saints would shoulder some responsibility in this, many saints could be protected from damage.

Using keeping the oneness and fear of being divisive to keep so many abuses hidden is sick. I cannot and will not be quiet about this, even though this is one of the more difficult experiences of my life.

EDIT: I have now learned that the sexual predator from Fullerton is leaving the local churches in a public way. There is a possibility that the only reason the church in Fullerton is speaking up about him is due to him leaving the local churches.
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