I Am A Part Of The Local Church

[aron]

Originally Posted by Anon

Right now, I will just follow the Lord whether that’s leaving the LC or not.

Originally Posted by Anon

The information I heard kinda scared me as my grandpa is a major part of a lot of it. I am the grandson of one of the leading elders in all of the LC. That won’t stray me away from leaving if the Lord is leading me that way though.

The LC functions through information control. Most of us who went through the system there, the so-called church life, knew nothing of Daystar Motor Homes or the effect of Witness Lee's two sons, Philip and Timothy, on that very church life and the people therein.

So it was a shock to read of it. We had heard of vague "turmoils" but that was someone else, far away. Eventually we began to realize, with more information, that the "storms" and "rebellions" were probably part of the LC system itself.

Now I want to come to the second part of your post, about leaving (or not). It's a common topic among those growing up there, and a difficult one. You have your entire life invested in one thing, and to consider an alternate life, as yet unknown, is nearly overwhelming.

But that's what life is: it's a series of decisions with consequences, many decisions unfortunately being made with little information. So we choose in partial ignorance, trusting God's goodness, hoping for the best.

Now, it's always good to get information, and make more informed decisions. But learning is not merely "who did what and when", or in the case of religion, learning Greek and Aramaic and Hebrew declensions, and what the recipients of apostolic letters could have been expected to understand.

All that's good and even necessary, but the one thing, the main thing, beyond rightness (righteousness) and self-control, is to love. And that doesn't come from a book or a meeting, but from life. It's why you're here. To learn to love. Love isn't a feeling, like a teen with a crush on a classmate, or a food choice ("I love pizza"). Love is an action, continually done, even when it's not reciprocated. Especially when it's not reciprocated!

Jesus loved, and he lay down his life, for sinners. We couldn't reciprocate, but he loved anyway. The Father's great love flowed through him, to us. As he bled there on the cross, his family stood off (Psalm 27:10; 69:8), his disciples had deserted, and even denied him (!!!), his people had placed him "in the hands of lawless men" (Romans, i.e. gentiles) ~Acts 2:23. He'd been cursed, beaten, struck, whipped (Psalm 22:7,8,16). Yet he loved.

Now, he set the bar, and we follow, even if we can't reach his measure. He expects us to try. Dorcas made shirts for the widows. I'm sure you know the story. Paul urged the Roman, Corinthian, and Galatian churches to set aside a portion for the poor of Jerusalem (1 Cor 16:1-4; cf Rom 15:23-29; Gal 2:10; Acts 24:17). This seems to be a deliberate attempt at fulfillment of Jesus' "give to those who can't repay you in this age". In man's economy, I give you something, and you give me back. I give you a book, you give me a dollar. I give you a loaf of bread, you pay me six shillings. But in God's economy you give selflessly, without expectation. Because God loves, because Christ loves. Jesus loved us first.

In my case, it might be to write my posts here with a bit more grace, to moderate my criticisms of LC practice and history, and to read and pay attention to others' ideas and not just to force mine own on the conversation. And on my job, I supervise young, lazy, indifferent workers who complain when I put them to tasks. Yet I must remember when I was their age, I was perhaps even worse! So I bear with them, and try to lead them, to forgive them, to guide them to more efficient activity. Remember, "Love is kind, love is patient..." ~1 Cor 13. I try not to blame my wife, parents and children for my misery, but to own it, repent, and grow out of it.

So even today, I learn to love. Slowly, fitfully, I try to follow the King.

[Curious]

Originally Posted by aron

Jesus loved, and he lay down his life, for sinners. We couldn't reciprocate, but he loved anyway. The Father's great love flowed through him, to us. As he bled there on the cross, his family stood off (Psalm 27:10; 69:8), his disciples had deserted, and even denied him (!!!), his people had placed him "in the hands of lawless men" (Romans, i.e. gentiles) ~Acts 2:23. He'd been cursed, beaten, struck, whipped (Psalm 22:7,8,16). Yet he loved.

I just want to say, I enjoy these posts because, quite apart from the main point of this forum, there is very good commentary on the Christian life here generally.

Having gone through a system with error, the real important things have been identified by posters such as this one, and it is a blessing to read and be encouraged to focus on. I know people in other 'sideways' moves within Christianity, and the same focus away from love is foundational to their errors as well. Bless you aron and thanks for your posts.

Anon,

Follow the Lord in the recovery and read the ministry.

Keep related to all truly born again believers elsewhere and be open to pray with them, meet individually or in small groups over coffee for fellowship even bible study. Some of them may care for you better than those in LC. That is my experience.

You can read other versions of the bible too.

All human beings are fallen so expect disappointment to come your way from believers in terms of how you are treated. Whether in LC or other group people will hurt you.

Remember it is a personal relationship with Christ. You are not bound to follow everything WL or WN says or what co workers say. In secondary things we can differ in doctrine and practice. God will make all things clear.

Pray about which meetings to attend in your locality and which saints to open personal matters to. There are wolves in the recovery as elsewhere or maybe a less strong word is people with ill will and malice. You don't have to attend all the blending conferences and trainings because it is tradition. What matters is doing things in life in spirit.

Do not judge or be too judgmental. Many Christians are very judgmental and LC has many of them too.

Know that jealousy and malice is rife in LC as anywhere else.

Know saints are quick to quarantine or speak ill of you if you differ in some points of doctrine or your way of life does not confirm to their view of how one should live. So be discrete about travel plans, extra curricular activities like sports or unbelieving friends as you commit all these to the Lord.

That is my advice after 16 years in the recovery in a locality far from you.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by I.S

Follow the Lord in the recovery and read the ministry.

Well conveyed - honest! Yes, we all still have the flesh and often walk in it, so we shouldn't be too disappointed with others (or ourselves) when things go sideways. Look, there are those in the Roman Church thing, and various other systems, who have a good walk with the Lord! Every system is tainted, at least until the Lord returns. We all must look to Him wherever we happen to be (actually by His design - He has placed us in the body where He sees fit).

In that day I don't think we'll have any excuse by saying, "Well You put me in such and such system, so how could I go on!?" We've all been given a measure of grace to pursue Him where we are, and that includes the LC or wherever! (and in that pursuit, He may tell us to leave where we are . . .)

This applies to others who have recently gone out the LC. So thank you for your pieces for advice. Except this one below.

Originally Posted by I.S

Follow the Lord in the recovery and read the ministry.

[aron]

Originally Posted by SentOutFree

This applies to others who have recently gone out of the LC. So thank you for your pieces for advice. Except this one - "Follow the Lord in the recovery and read the ministry "

The 'recovery' or 'restoration' or even -gasp- 'reformation' are all arguably misnomers. The 'fall' or 'degradation' occurred in the early chapters of Genesis (I see a series of 'falls' including Gen 6, as alluded to by Jude 1:6 and 2 Pet 2:4). The 'recovery' or 'restoration' occurred in the four gospels of the NT, at the latest in the early chapters of Acts (see Jesus' allusion to the "coming Kingdom" as initiated at Pentecost [1:6-8]). The epistles of Paul et al, up to and including the Apocalypse of John, are commentaries on and expansions of what occurred in the gospels, and don't change anything. Jesus of Nazareth is the Way. He's the King of Israel. He's Saviour of the World. There's no other name given, on earth or in heaven, by which we're to be saved. That's presented as immutable, irrevocable.

The 'ministry' concept was a vehicle, a way to lead ones into the voracious jaws of Witness Lee's circle of associates and family members. First was presented the so-called restored or recovered church. Then, this 'church' needed an 'oracle' or Deputy God, the so-called ministry of the age. Then, the ministry concept led one to imbalanced dependence on the person of that minister, and opened them up to his family: enter Philip Lee, Timothy Lee et al. The Witness Lee Mind Control Programme and Guanxi Network.

The whole thing is unbiblical and is a sham of the first order. They should teach this in high school: "Kids, you are going off to college. Irrespective of your religion or lack thereof, watch out for the cults. They'll suck out your brain and your soul." This ought to be taught, along with Algebra, Earth Science and World History. But they don't, and how many have been fooled! But the 'fall' is unchanged, and its cure. Both are still playing out today.

I would ask you to stay put and just pray for saints no matter where they meet or denominational title they go by to support you.

My main beef with LC is the following:
A tendency to judge people, criticize and think they're superior.

A lack of humility and acceptance of wrong doing, even when they have made mistakes.

You probably can't get help on many matters from leading ones in the recovery. By this I mean maters related to conflicts between saints, gaining good jobs or making career decisions and some other matters.

Still I would not recommend leaving because what would you leave to? If you can't learn the lesson of enjoying Christ in the midst of your suffering, perplexion, confusion of how some use the ministry you will miss something. In any case there isn't much food in Christianity. Of that I am convinced.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by I.S

because what would you leave to?

Oh, I don't know....maybe to someplace that does not teach that Witness Lee was the only person speaking as God's oracle on earth? Maybe someplace that does not teach that man is becoming God in life and nature. Maybe someplace that does not teach that "Protestantism is christless" and that the denominations are the daughters of the Great Whore.

I.S., this leaves a lot of places for Anon to go to! Wouldn't you agree?

Originally Posted by I.S

In any case there isn't much food in Christianity. Of that I am convinced.

So you're like Witness Lee then...you are omnipresent and omniscient - you know for a fact that there isn't much food outside of the Local Church? I.S. how did you come to obtain these divine powers? Did you Pray-Read Lee messages and Call on The Lord for 40 days and 40 nights or something like that? Let us know - inquiring minds want to know!
-

[manna-man]

Originally Posted by I.S

I would ask you to stay put and just pray for saints no matter where they meet or denominational title they go by to support you.

My main beef with LC is the following:
A tendency to judge people, criticize and think they're superior.

A lack of humility and acceptance of wrong doing, even when they have made mistakes.

You probably can't get help on many matters from leading ones in the recovery. By this I mean maters related to conflicts between saints, gaining good jobs or making career decisions and some other matters.

Still I would not recommend leaving because what would you leave to? If you can't learn the lesson of enjoying Christ in the midst of your suffering, perplexion, confusion of how some use the ministry you will miss something. In any case there isn't much food in Christianity. Of that I am convinced.

I.S
Consider this verse

Luke 23:34*King James Version (KJV)

34*Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

Then said I.S

I would ask you to stay put and just pray for saints no matter where they meet or denominational title they go by to support you.

We can see your willingness to pray for the
saints. That's admirable.

When we consider Luke 23:34 how is it that there in no consideration for those in the world?
I ask this because of your following quote:

"In any case there isn't much food in Christianity. Of that I am convinced."

There is a disconnect here..