LGBTQ, in LC and Beyond.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by OnewithGF

Did you read my whole post?

I am not sure why there is confusion about if she is transgender.

When she was a child people told her she was a boy but she never felt that was right. As soon as she was able to as an adult she transitioned to living as a woman.

Of course I read it. This is a conversation and both sides are expected to listen/read to the other. My question to you still stands.

I understand that you are saying "the person inside the body is a girl and thus the body of that person is a body that belongs to a girl and is thus a girl's body", but you know full well that that's not what I am talking about.

If she is transitioning, what is she transitioning from? If she is taking estrogen, why is she taking estrogen? Obviously it's because the physical body she is in is one that has historically, for thousands of years, been called a "male body", separate from whether the gendered person who possesses that body feels like a man or a woman. Surely you are not disputing that concept, are you? That seems to be at the core of the distress of transgendered people -- the disconnect between their physical body and who they feel they are inside. If that concept has changed, I'd appreciate help understanding what on earth has changed.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Of course I read it. This is a conversation and both sides are expected to listen/read to the other. My question to you still stands.

I understand that you are saying "the person inside the body is a girl and thus the body of that person is a body that belongs to a girl and is thus a girl's body", but you know full well that that's not what I am talking about.

If she is transitioning, what is she transitioning from? If she is taking estrogen, why is she taking estrogen? Obviously it's because the physical body she is in is one that has historically, for thousands of years, been called a "male body", separate from whether the gendered person who possesses that body feels like a man or a woman. Surely you are not disputing that concept, are you? That seems to be at the core of the distress of transgendered people -- the disconnect between their physical body and who they feel they are inside. If that concept has changed, I'd appreciate help understanding what on earth has changed.

I have been told by a counselor who counsels trans genders that for trans to feel "normal" or healthy, they must be convinced that the entire world must be wrong. Thousands of years and billions of people all wrong to prove trans are OK. Something is seriously wrong with this picture. I doubt that God would place someone like this in the world knowing this entire world was wrong.

[clever sister]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Of course I read it. This is a conversation and both sides are expected to listen/read to the other. My question to you still stands.

I understand that you are saying "the person inside the body is a girl and thus the body of that person is a body that belongs to a girl and is thus a girl's body", but you know full well that that's not what I am talking about.

If she is transitioning, what is she transitioning from? If she is taking estrogen, why is she taking estrogen? Obviously it's because the physical body she is in is one that has historically, for thousands of years, been called a "male body", separate from whether the gendered person who possesses that body feels like a man or a woman. Surely you are not disputing that concept, are you? That seems to be at the core of the distress of transgendered people -- the disconnect between their physical body and who they feel they are inside. If that concept has changed, I'd appreciate help understanding what on earth has changed.

I just want to come in here and say that, yes, how we talk about transgender individuals has changed.

There has been a move away from gender dysphoria being an essential part of the definition of being transgender. Gender dysphoria is still a common experience, but with improvements in treatment for transgender children it may become less and less common. And I don't mean that people are doing surgery on children, not at all.
Gender affirming behaviour towards children and young adults can reduce and even eliminate gender dysphoria.
And puberty blockers can delay puberty until one is old enough to decide if they want to take hormone replacement therapy and/or have surgery.

There has also been increased understanding that biological sex is made up of five factors, not one or two.
These are chromosones, gonads, hormones, internal reproductive anatomy and external genitalia.
When a child is born, or in these cases even before they are born, there external genitalia is used to determine if they are a boy or a girl. Only in cases where it is unclear will they do something like test chromosones (this usually indicates a type of intersex condition, but not all intersex conditions are diagnosed at birth).
So, even with intersex children, after birth a gender is assigned to them and recorded on their birth certificate. This is where you may see people saying "I'm AFAB" or "AMAB", assigned female at birth or assigned male at birth.

For most people all their biological sex, their assigned gender and their own gender identity match.
In cases where some of the biological sex markers do not match their assigned gender, they are intersex.
In cases where assigned gender does not match their gender identity, they are called transgender.
Someone can be both or neither.

Going back to the five markers of biological sex, some of these can be changed with medical intervention.

Chromosomes- unchangeable, but the one with the least impact. I don't even know if my sex chromosomes are XX. I just assume so.

Gonads- can be removed, but as yet can't be replaced with working alternatives.

Internal reproductive anatomy- similar to gonads, can be removed but not yet replaced.

Hormones- completely changeable. Hormones replacement therapy is the most common treatment option for people who are transgender. I have friends who I have known since we were children and I have watched the impact that taking hormones has had on them. It changes how they look, it changes how they sound and it even has changes on their emotions.

External genitalia- the one everyone obsesses about. Yes, many transgender people get or want to get surgery down there. But it does not have that much impact on their day to day lives as hormone replacement therapy. How many people outside yourself, your spouse and your doctor see your private parts on a regular basis?


I hope this has been an educational post

[awareness]

Originally Posted by clever sister

I just want to come in here and say that, yes, how we talk about transgender individuals has changed.

There has been a move away from gender dysphoria being an essential part of the definition of being transgender. Gender dysphoria is still a common experience, but with improvements in treatment for transgender children it may become less and less common. And I don't mean that people are doing surgery on children, not at all.
Gender affirming behaviour towards children and young adults can reduce and even eliminate gender dysphoria.
And puberty blockers can delay puberty until one is old enough to decide if they want to take hormone replacement therapy and/or have surgery.

There has also been increased understanding that biological sex is made up of five factors, not one or two.
These are chromosones, gonads, hormones, internal reproductive anatomy and external genitalia.
When a child is born, or in these cases even before they are born, there external genitalia is used to determine if they are a boy or a girl. Only in cases where it is unclear will they do something like test chromosones (this usually indicates a type of intersex condition, but not all intersex conditions are diagnosed at birth).
So, even with intersex children, after birth a gender is assigned to them and recorded on their birth certificate. This is where you may see people saying "I'm AFAB" or "AMAB", assigned female at birth or assigned male at birth.

For most people all their biological sex, their assigned gender and their own gender identity match.
In cases where some of the biological sex markers do not match their assigned gender, they are intersex.
In cases where assigned gender does not match their gender identity, they are called transgender.
Someone can be both or neither.

Going back to the five markers of biological sex, some of these can be changed with medical intervention.

Chromosomes- unchangeable, but the one with the least impact. I don't even know if my sex chromosomes are XX. I just assume so.

Gonads- can be removed, but as yet can't be replaced with working alternatives.

Internal reproductive anatomy- similar to gonads, can be removed but not yet replaced.

Hormones- completely changeable. Hormones replacement therapy is the most common treatment option for people who are transgender. I have friends who I have known since we were children and I have watched the impact that taking hormones has had on them. It changes how they look, it changes how they sound and it even has changes on their emotions.

External genitalia- the one everyone obsesses about. Yes, many transgender people get or want to get surgery down there. But it does not have that much impact on their day to day lives as hormone replacement therapy. How many people outside yourself, your spouse and your doctor see your private parts on a regular basis?


I hope this has been an educational post

And that it is. Thanks so much. I now feel that I finally understand transgender. Excellent work, and presentation. You're a gem. Thanks for being on this thread.