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Old 06-03-2020, 11:14 AM   #1
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Exclamation STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

This past week the USA has been inflamed - emotionally & literally - regarding the allegedly brutal death of George Floyd at the hands of a white police officer. (I use "allegedly" because while the officer has been charged with 2nd degree murder, manslaughter and other charges, he has not been found guilty in a court of law.) We are told by those protesting this event that there is a severe problem of deep, systemic racism inherent in our police forces nationwide, and that there must be swift and decisive change to correct this. While the videos of Mr. Floyd's death are deeply disturbing and it seems the office was clearly guilty of killing this fellow unnecessarily, is this indicative of widespread racism in police forces across America?

Larry Elder is a black radio commentator who is carried on stations across the USA. A couple nights ago I heard him speak about a peer-reviewed study published in June 2019 by the National Academy of Sciences, which looked into the matter of police killings by shooting in this country. In particular, the study was done to determine if there was evidence for the allegation that a disproportionate number of minorities were killed by police and specifically by white officers in the USA.

Here are a couple quotes from this study found here: NAS RESEARCH ARTICLE - Officer characteristics and racial disparities in fatal officer-involved shootings
“We find no evidence of anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparities across shootings, and White officers are not more likely to shoot minority civilians than non-White officers. Instead, race-specific crime strongly predicts civilian race. This suggests that increasing diversity among officers by itself is unlikely to reduce racial disparity in police shootings.”

“1) As the proportion of Black or Hispanic officers in a FOIS (fatal office-involved shooting) increases, a person shot is more likely to be Black or Hispanic than White, a disparity explained by county demographics; 2) race-specific county-level violent crime strongly predicts the race of the civilian shot;”


Read a National Review article discussing this study: There Is No Epidemic of Racist Police Shootings

So while everyone rushes headlong to use the unfortunate and apparently despicable killing of George Floyd as solid proof that there is a huge racism problem in most of the police forces across America, the evidence of this is not supported - at least not by this study. (And from what I have found, it is probably the most definitive study of this kind that has been done so far.)

I can't help but think of Psalm "Surely are they disquited in vain."
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Old 06-04-2020, 03:49 PM   #2
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

In all fairness, I need to say that there are a few who are disputing some of the methods used in the June 2019 study (see 1st post). As a result, the original study researchers did change a very small piece of their report to reflect one of these concerns, but to me it doesn't seem like it changed the resulting conclusions very much at all.

Others are suggesting different ways additional studies on systemic police racism should be conducted, like looking at all police stops and not just the police shooting related killings.

So while the academics hash out exactly how the these studies should be conducted and the exact metrics to use, what occurs to me is this: What is being reported as a blatant problem of systemic racism in this country's police departments is not so easy to prove as the protesters and general media seemingly would like us to believe. And so far, the evidence I see doesn't support the claims that there actually is this huge problem!

It's easy, in this instantaneous information age, to say, "Look, this minority was killed here and that minority there!" if that is all someone is looking for. This doesn't prove that there is systemic racism. How many white suspects get killed by police during the same time period and as a proportion of the local demographic? For instance, if I said that the police are systemically brutalizing redheads, I could likely find plenty of anecdotal information to support my claim, as police probably have to forcefully confront redheads several times daily around this big country.
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Old 06-04-2020, 04:41 PM   #3
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

This was a real eye-opener for me ...

Candace Owens: "I DO NOT support George Floyd!" & Here's Why!


I have concluded that the media today is purely brainwashing propaganda. Look at all the attention on George Floyd's funeral, yet thousands of decent folks got no funeral at all due to the covid-1984.


Why do the heathen rage?
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Old 06-04-2020, 05:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

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This was a real eye-opener for me ...

Candace Owens: "I DO NOT support George Floyd!" & Here's Why!


I have concluded that the media today is purely brainwashing propaganda. Look at all the attention on George Floyd's funeral, yet thousands of decent folks got no funeral at all due to the covid-1984.


Why do the heathen rage?
That was a good video - thanks for sharing! Isn't ol' mob-rule Adam distressing to watch when he really gets gets going!? A lie gets repeated enough, then hook up some emotion with it, and logic just goes out the window. It would all make Goebbels so proud. (and stay tuned, because we ain't seen nothin' yet!)
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Old 06-05-2020, 09:24 AM   #5
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

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Why do the heathen rage?
Yes! Why are they raging out here?
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Old 06-05-2020, 05:46 PM   #6
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

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Yes! Why are they raging out here?
Who is raging where?
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Old 06-05-2020, 05:52 PM   #7
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

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That was a good video - thanks for sharing! Isn't ol' mob-rule Adam distressing to watch when he really gets gets going!? A lie gets repeated enough, then hook up some emotion with it, and logic just goes out the window. It would all make Goebbels so proud. (and stay tuned, because we ain't seen nothin' yet!)
It has now become obvious what is important. It was never about black lives. Black lives matter nothing to them. They have already killed 5 blacks in the riots. 5 real decent black lives, not the guy in Minneapolis who was wasted on Meth and Fent, with a violent drug-laden rap sheet 1,473.9 mm long.

What they hate is authority. They fight for lawlessness, anarchy, destruction, chaos. They want to defund and eliminate the police.

God have mercy on us!
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Old 06-05-2020, 08:07 PM   #8
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

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It has now become obvious what is important. It was never about black lives. Black lives matter nothing to them. They have already killed 5 blacks in the riots. 5 real decent black lives, not the guy in Minneapolis who was wasted on Meth and Fent, with a violent drug-laden rap sheet 1,473.9 mm long.

What they hate is authority. They fight for lawlessness, anarchy, destruction, chaos. They want to defund and eliminate the police.

God have mercy on us!
You had David Dorn (killed by looters), Dave Underwood, Itialia Kelly (by a rioter), David McAtee (by police), Chris Beaty (thieves). Not to mention numbers more in Chicago and elsewhere. Lives; black, white, asian. latino are all treated as pawns. It's about following through on a narrative. It's about an election. It's about removing an undesirable president. Only when November 3 passes could there be civility.
Many places appear to be following through on defunding the police. etc.
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Old 06-05-2020, 09:52 PM   #9
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

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You had David Dorn (killed by looters), Dave Underwood, Itialia Kelly (by a rioter), David McAtee (by police), Chris Beaty (thieves). Not to mention numbers more in Chicago and elsewhere. Lives; black, white, asian. latino are all treated as pawns. It's about following through on a narrative. It's about an election. It's about removing an undesirable president. Only when November 3 passes could there be civility.
Many places appear to be following through on defunding the police. etc.
Even bigger than removing Trump is the Antifa goal to destroy America.

Their agenda is absolutely Marxist: remove all police, create chaos in all of our community, eliminate income inequality, destroy our free market economy, end all private property ownership, make all citizenry dependent on the government, eliminate all gun ownership, terminate all objectionable speech, convince us all of white guilt and the corrupt racial nature of America, etc.
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Old 06-05-2020, 11:03 PM   #10
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

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Even bigger than removing Trump is the Antifa goal to destroy America.

Their agenda is absolutely Marxist: remove all police, create chaos in all of our community, eliminate income inequality, destroy our free market economy, end all private property ownership, make all citizenry dependent on the government, eliminate all gun ownership, terminate all objectionable speech, convince us all of white guilt and the corrupt racial nature of America, etc.
Just as Hitler had an enforcement arm in the Brown Shirts (think that’s what they were called) that would beat opponents in the street, wreck stuff, etc, I wonder if the far
Left now has an enforcement arm in Antifa groups and the like. Though, it is not organized under one person as Hitler.
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Old 06-06-2020, 02:56 AM   #11
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Just as Hitler had an enforcement arm in the Brown Shirts (think that’s what they were called) that would beat opponents in the street, wreck stuff, etc, I wonder if the far
Left now has an enforcement arm in Antifa groups and the like. Though, it is not organized under one person as Hitler.
That's an interesting twist of fate. Antifa, anti-fascist, was started in the Soviet Union back in the 1930's. Their infiltration into the USA was matched by the OSS. Since the fascists were such a threat to humanity, they solicited many in the US with their countering, albeit communistic, ideals. These ideals are sold as socialism, but require the totalitarian tactics of a strong-armed dictatorship to implement. Many in Hollywood first embraced them, and McCarthyism was the reaction to it.

Antifa appealed also to many in academia since their stated objectives appeared so highly desirable. Unfortunately the communists merely replaced one oppressive regime (Hitller) with another (Stalin.) Then their ideals were picked up by many around the globe including Mao, Fidel Castro, and Hugo Chavez. Though these two systems became labeled "left" and "right" in Pre-WW2 Europe, their oppressive tactics were similar.

Today we are learning that Antifa is quite organized. They hide in the chaos and solicit protesters and looters as their cover. One of their stated objectives is the abolition of the police, which is even being promoted by many politicians in the Bernie wing of the Democratic Party, promising a utopian alternative to the "rampant police brutality." Follow the money. Much of it leads back to billionaire Soros, whose stated goal is the destruction of America.

One journalist has called the current protests across America as the SuperBowl of Antifa. Note their deception. While exalting one black victim, 5 more black victims of rioting (to date) are permitted collateral, exposing their blatant hypocrisy. Of course, the real objective was never Black Lives Matter but all police must be eliminated, not because they are inherently bad, which statistics prove, but because they are in the way of their plans to transform American society like they have in Russia and China.
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Old 06-06-2020, 11:21 AM   #12
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

Antifa is a serious threat to our free market economy and democratic way of life! They are exploiting the opportunity to tear down what is good, to make way for their Marxist agenda power-grab.

In the end, it's all just a big manifestation of Adam. I was listening to a radio commentator last night decrying how blacks are treated differently. Then he commented that athletes and celebrities are also treated differently (not worse, but just differently). That caused me to start thinking - well shoot, just about everyone is treated differently for some reason. Ugly people, fat people, overly skinny people, short people, poor people, liberals, yellow people, rich people, red people, conservatives . . . you name it - they're are treated differently!

And then there's the biggest demographic: women! Women are treated differently too, and there's probably much more data to support "unfair" treatment of women than of anyone else. So what if women also rose up and started marching & protesting and carrying on?! And not as they have in the past, but what if women really came out in force to protest and shut things down for a long time, widespread all over the country (or maybe the world)? Now THAT would be a most serious game changer!

My point is, Adam pretty much treats anyone who is unlike him differently. And even if someone looks pretty much just like him, Adam will still try to take advantage!

So, of course, the only real solution is to ditch Adam and start fresh.
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Old 06-06-2020, 11:36 AM   #13
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Who is raging where?
Candace Owens, and all you out here that support her. She ain't got the sense that God gave a goose. She's as loony as AOC, except on the far right.

Plus, she's one of those dreaded pagans, y'all like to denigrate. We should all be raging against her.
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Old 06-06-2020, 11:45 AM   #14
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

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Candace Owens, and all you out here that support her. She ain't got the sense that God gave a goose. She's as loony as AOC, except on the far right.

Plus, she's one of those dreaded pagans, y'all like to denigrate. We should all be raging against her.
So now that you've done the character assassination on Ms. Owens --- did you watch her video, and if so, can you dispute specifics?

BTW: over 3,600,000 views on that video in less than two days. (which doesn't mean it's good, bad or ugly . . .)
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Old 06-06-2020, 08:21 PM   #15
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

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Candace Owens, and all you out here that support her. She ain't got the sense that God gave a goose. She's as loony as AOC, except on the far right.

Plus, she's one of those dreaded pagans, y'all like to denigrate. We should all be raging against her.
Sorry, bro, but you been brainwashed by Leftist propaganda.

Name one thing in her youtube that was factually wrong.

It sounds like you support these ANTIFA riots as atonement for America's evil. Last count 17 have died in the chaos. Most of them black.

Honest questions: How many deaths will be required to atone for George Floyd's death? How many buildings must be destroyed?
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Old 06-07-2020, 10:26 AM   #16
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Honest questions: How many deaths will be required to atone for George Floyd's death? How many buildings must be destroyed?
I have a couple of questions for you and anyone else out here:

1) Are you against police brutality against blacks?

2) Are you anti-racism?

Please answer those questions, and then we can continue our discussion,
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Old 06-07-2020, 10:39 AM   #17
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

Interesting discussion on the patio having breakfast with my wife this morning. We were talking about how everyone gets treated differently, if they are different from another person. That is, fat people are treated differently by skinny people, and so forth. This is just how it is. One can choose to take on the victum mentality, which does nobody any good, or one can choose to figure out a way to overcome it. For instance, she (in her corporate career) rose to the level of VP in an international company and thought nothing of disadvantages she might have faced as a woman. She paid perceived disadvantages little attention, because what one focuses on tends to become bigger. When being interviewed by the media, she disappointed a reporter because she replied to the reporter's questions by asking, "What glass ceiling are you referring to?"

Human nature says we will have a big knee-jerk reaction to this current situation, paying little attention to any actual empirical data regarding systemic racism among our police and related systems. In doing this, there will be another big over-reach of government (a new oversight agency?) that will cost us all more tax money. But in the end, this government reaction will assuage the perceptions of many, and that will "solve" the problem - because that's where the problem mainly is . . . in many people's perception.

So what's to do? Accept that it's just another manifestation of futile Adam being disquieted in vain, and go praise the Lord with the saints! (which is just what I'm about to do!)
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Old 06-07-2020, 10:40 AM   #18
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

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I have a couple of questions for you and anyone else out here:

1) Are you against police brutality against blacks?

2) Are you anti-racism?

Please answer those questions, and then we can continue our discussion,
Yes and yes - easiest answers I've given so far today!

And I'd be interested in your thoughts on my post just before this one.
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Old 06-07-2020, 11:47 AM   #19
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I have a couple of questions for you and anyone else out here:

1) Are you against police brutality against blacks?

2) Are you anti-racism?

Please answer those questions, and then we can continue our discussion,
Of course, I am against racism, racism against blacks, against whites, against natives, against hispanics, against asians, I am against all racism.

Of course, I am against police brutality, police brutality against blacks, police brutality against whites, police brutality against asians, police brutality against hispanics. I am against all police brutality towards all people.


awareness, are you also against the torture, murder, and mistreatment of Christians?
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Old 06-07-2020, 08:32 PM   #20
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awareness, are you also against the torture, murder, and mistreatment of Christians?
I'll take that as a rhetorical question.

Other than that, I'm totally with you with anti-racism, and police brutality. I believe also that, all lives matter ; as long as it isn't used to dismiss black lives matter.

Thanks for your kind reply.
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Old 06-07-2020, 08:51 PM   #21
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Okay, back to Candace.

On Sunday, Owens revealed that her campaign to support Dykes’ cafe was suspended by GoFundMe after the company found her fundraiser “to be in support of hate, violence, harassment, bullying, discrimination, terrorism, or intolerance of any kind.”
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Old 06-07-2020, 09:11 PM   #22
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Okay, back to Candace.

On Sunday, Owens revealed that her campaign to support Dykes’ cafe was suspended by GoFundMe after the company found her fundraiser “to be in support of hate, violence, harassment, bullying, discrimination, terrorism, or intolerance of any kind.”
These are the false charges they bring against all conservatives to intimidate them into subservience. Where have you been? Haven't you seen film clips of the vile hate, bullying, terrorism, and intimidation coming from ANTIFA thugs?

Where are the charges of being a science and climate denier? How about being more murderous than Hitler? The list goes on -- she must be a xenophobe too.

THESE ARE THE EXACT THINGS HER ACCUSERS ARE DOING TO HER!

I thought you were smart enough to see thru this nonsense. ANTIFA is a dangerous cult. Didn't you say that you would always be there thinking for them? So they don't have to, because they are not!
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Old 06-08-2020, 08:16 AM   #23
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

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Okay, back to Candace.
She does appear to be a tad polarizing, doesn't she?

Awareness, you may have not seen my post below, and then where I was asking for your response . . .

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Originally Posted by Sons to Glory! View Post
Interesting discussion on the patio having breakfast with my wife this morning. We were talking about how everyone gets treated differently, if they are different from another person. That is, fat people are treated differently by skinny people, and so forth. This is just how it is. One can choose to take on the victum mentality, which does nobody any good, or one can choose to figure out a way to overcome it. For instance, she (in her corporate career) rose to the level of VP in an international company and thought nothing of disadvantages she might have faced as a woman. She paid perceived disadvantages little attention, because what one focuses on tends to become bigger. When being interviewed by the media, she disappointed a reporter because she replied to the reporter's questions by asking, "What glass ceiling are you referring to?"

Human nature says we will have a big knee-jerk reaction to this current situation, paying little attention to any actual empirical data regarding systemic racism among our police and related systems. In doing this, there will be another big over-reach of government (a new oversight agency?) that will cost us all more tax money. But in the end, this government reaction will assuage the perceptions of many, and that will "solve" the problem - because that's where the problem mainly is . . . in many people's perception.

So what's to do? Accept that it's just another manifestation of futile Adam being disquieted in vain, and go praise the Lord with the saints! (which is just what I'm about to do!)
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Old 06-08-2020, 10:36 AM   #24
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She does appear to be a tad polarizing, doesn't she?
Owens is no different than the dozens of conservative black scholars, writers, and talk show hosts and guests that I have heard. They are only speaking truth to power during this state of anarchy.

At what point do we stand up to lawlessness and these bully tactics?

Is not ANTIFA/BLM a dangerous cult? A terrorist organization? Awareness acts all brave and courageous when he speaks out against Southern Baptists, Evangelicals, and this Anaheim "cult," claiming to think for them. But note that they never fight back, at least not with violence. I would like to see him take a stand and do some thinking for all the little victims --men, women, old and young -- of all colors -- who have lost their lives, loved ones, homes, livelihood, neighborhoods, and property to this vicious mob.

Shouldn't we support all of the courageous ones who speak out against thugs who would rob us blind of who we are, what we own, our human rights, and our freedoms? If not, think about that mob coming to your neighborhood, breaking down your door, smashing, looting, and burning everything in sight. And forget about calling 911, because that "de-funded" thin Blue line stayed home to defend their own families.
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Old 06-08-2020, 12:52 PM   #25
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Owens is no different than the dozens of conservative black scholars, writers, and talk show hosts and guests that I have heard. They are only speaking truth to power during this state of anarchy.

At what point do we stand up to lawlessness and these bully tactics?

Is not ANTIFA/BLM a dangerous cult? A terrorist organization? Awareness acts all brave and courageous when he speaks out against Southern Baptists, Evangelicals, and this Anaheim "cult," claiming to think for them. But note that they never fight back, at least not with violence. I would like to see him take a stand and do some thinking for all the little victims --men, women, old and young -- of all colors -- who have lost their lives, loved ones, homes, livelihood, neighborhoods, and property to this vicious mob.

Shouldn't we support all of the courageous ones who speak out against thugs who would rob us blind of who we are, what we own, our human rights, and our freedoms? If not, think about that mob coming to your neighborhood, breaking down your door, smashing, looting, and burning everything in sight. And forget about calling 911, because that "de-funded" thin Blue line stayed home to defend their own families.
I liked what she had to say, and thought it was a good balance to what the extreme leftists are peddling.

I find it quite fascinating in observing Adam in action. As each side gets more extreme and vocal about something, the other side has to become louder and more extreme to counter what they perceive as the other side becoming more extreme. Therefore I observed that Miss Owens was "a tad polarizing" somewhat in a sarcastic way . . .

My my my, where will it all end?! (oh wait, we know the answer to that)
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Old 06-09-2020, 07:51 AM   #26
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ANTIFA is a dangerous cult.
I don't think any of us is for fascism ; certainly today, with government control of everything.

I was certainly on the side of antifa in Charlottesville, against the KKK, neo-Nazi's, white supremacists, etc. They're worse than any antifa.

I know Trumpites believe every word that comes out of Saint Trump's mouth, but the facts don't hold up, that they are behind the violence and looting during the anti-racism protests. But since when has Trump ever cared about facts?

How come Trump isn't calling the Boogaloo Boys terrorists?
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Old 06-09-2020, 08:34 AM   #27
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Interesting discussion on the patio having breakfast with my wife this morning. We were talking about how everyone gets treated differently, if they are different from another person. That is, fat people are treated differently by skinny people, and so forth. This is just how it is. One can choose to take on the victum mentality, which does nobody any good, or one can choose to figure out a way to overcome it. For instance, she (in her corporate career) rose to the level of VP in an international company and thought nothing of disadvantages she might have faced as a woman. She paid perceived disadvantages little attention, because what one focuses on tends to become bigger. When being interviewed by the media, she disappointed a reporter because she replied to the reporter's questions by asking, "What glass ceiling are you referring to?"

Human nature says we will have a big knee-jerk reaction to this current situation, paying little attention to any actual empirical data regarding systemic racism among our police and related systems. In doing this, there will be another big over-reach of government (a new oversight agency?) that will cost us all more tax money. But in the end, this government reaction will assuage the perceptions of many, and that will "solve" the problem - because that's where the problem mainly is . . . in many people's perception.

So what's to do? Accept that it's just another manifestation of futile Adam being disquieted in vain, and go praise the Lord with the saints! (which is just what I'm about to do!)
Good post StG. I think there's two major problems.

First, we're made of mud, and we can't expect too much from mud.

Second : tribalism. In prehistoric days, and afterwards, tribes were important for the survival of the human race ; back when human population was next to nothing.

But it seems that we lived so long with it, that it's become hard-wired in our human nature, in our psyche. We can't seem to kick it. That's one thing I hated even when I was in the local church. It's the we against them problem.

Tribalism may have worked in the past, but now, with our population pushing 8 billion, it is now very destructive, and dangerous. And cults are an extreme example of it.

And I know bro Ohio will likely say I'm in this or that cult. But there's no question that Trump is a personality cult leader -- like Lee -- and his rally attendees are his cult followers.

Thanks StG.
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Old 06-09-2020, 10:26 AM   #28
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I don't think any of us is for fascism ; certainly today, with government control of everything.
Hitler's Fascism ended with WWII. Did you miss that story?

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I was certainly on the side of antifa in Charlottesville, against the KKK, neo-Nazi's, white supremacists, etc. They're worse than any antifa.
Are you delusional? ANTIFA defines Fascism in the US. We now have death and destruction from ANTIFA in every major city. We have had NAZI style Kristallnacht in every US city for 2 weeks. The entire country is spiraling downward into total chaos and anarchy, and you are stuck on the monuments debate of 3 years ago?

We had one crazy Confederate neo-NAZI named Fields, convicted of 1st degree murder, driving his car into a crowd in Charlottesville, killing Heather Hoyer and hurting 8 others. No one from the Unite The Right crowd even knew him.

Have you not seen the recent news? Dozens senselessly killed by ANTIFA thugs. Tens of thousands of buildings, businesses, public structures destroyed and defaced. Do you also believe in ghosts and UFO's? You are equating a firecracker with an atom bomb, claiming the firecracker is more dangerous.
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Old 06-09-2020, 10:54 AM   #29
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And I know bro Ohio will likely say I'm in this or that cult. But there's no question that Trump is a personality cult leader -- like Lee -- and his rally attendees are his cult followers.
You are in the cult. So you are not kneeling down to that great BLM god Obama like all the others?
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Old 06-09-2020, 11:39 AM   #30
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Hitler's Fascism ended with WWII. Did you miss that story?


Are you delusional? ANTIFA defines Fascism in the US. We now have death and destruction from ANTIFA in every major city. We have had NAZI style Kristallnacht in every US city for 2 weeks. The entire country is spiraling downward into total chaos and anarchy, and you are stuck on the monuments debate of 3 years ago?

We had one crazy Confederate neo-NAZI named Fields, convicted of 1st degree murder, driving his car into a crowd in Charlottesville, killing Heather Hoyer and hurting 8 others. No one from the Unite The Right crowd even knew him.

Have you not seen the recent news? Dozens senselessly killed by ANTIFA thugs. Tens of thousands of buildings, businesses, public structures destroyed and defaced. Do you also believe in ghosts and UFO's? You are equating a firecracker with an atom bomb, claiming the firecracker is more dangerous.
You you you ... always making, taking, it personal.
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Old 06-09-2020, 01:04 PM   #31
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You you you ... always making, taking, it personal.
Yeah personal, it's my country. Yours too!
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Old 06-09-2020, 01:13 PM   #32
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

So Awareness (and anyone else) - did you look at the study regarding police shootings in my original post? Wondering what you might think.
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Old 06-09-2020, 07:10 PM   #33
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So Awareness (and anyone else) - did you look at the study regarding police shootings in my original post? Wondering what you might think.
Yes I did. Interesting study. I don't have time to go over blacks killed by cops, by shooting or choking, but the whites cops involved in Floyd's killing where shouting the n word. They obviously were racist.

That aside, for now, as far as I see the cops, not all of them, are out of control. Maybe the Supreme Court can help solve it by negating Qualified Immunity. Then cops putting 20 shots in the back of someone during a traffic stop will have to answer.

At any rate, seems everyone wants to stoke fear. But Christians should be immune to it.
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Old 06-09-2020, 07:43 PM   #34
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Yes I did. Interesting study. I don't have time to go over blacks killed by cops, by shooting or choking, but the whites cops involved in Floyd's killing where shouting the n word. They obviously were racist.

That aside, for now, as far as I see the cops, not all of them, are out of control. Maybe the Supreme Court can help solve it by negating Qualified Immunity. Then cops putting 20 shots in the back of someone during a traffic stop will have to answer.

At any rate, seems everyone wants to stoke fear. But Christians should be immune to it.
So police brutality happens. No one wants it. But it's not so easy to show empirical evidence that there is systemic police racism. We use a saying a lot in our work: "You can't manage what you don't measure." To take action just upon supposition is not effectively managing - it's knee jerk just for the sake of looking like you're doing something.
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Old 06-09-2020, 10:01 PM   #35
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So police brutality happens. No one wants it. But it's not so easy to show empirical evidence that there is systemic police racism. We use a saying a lot in our work: "You can't manage what you don't measure." To take action just upon supposition is not effectively managing - it's knee jerk just for the sake of looking like you're doing something.
Here's a 6 minute youtube that's interesting, and bears looking deeper into :

The Police Trainer Who Teaches Cops to Kill | The New Yorker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETf7NJOMS6Y
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Old 06-10-2020, 10:24 AM   #36
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

Little evidence of antifa links in U.S. prosecutions of those charged in protest violence

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-m...-idUSKBN23H06J
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Old 06-10-2020, 12:36 PM   #37
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Here's a 6 minute youtube that's interesting, and bears looking deeper into :

The Police Trainer Who Teaches Cops to Kill | The New Yorker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETf7NJOMS6Y
A good deal of ex-milatary goes into police work I understand and it seems pretty natural for that to happen. The video certainly shows disturbing clips and apparently (I wasn't there) wrong-headed shootings with people of color. (But it must also be said that if a police officer isn't able, physically & mentally, to defend us from shooters and/or killers, then they shouldn't be in that job, right?)

However, you can't say this is conclusive proof rising to the level of empirical evidence - demonstrating systemic racism, right (are you saying that?)? Again, you can't manage what you don't measure, otherwise you'll just be having a knee-jerk reaction to what appears to be so, but may not be the actual case in reality. And does it apply to every police force, or just certain of them?

If there really is systemic racism shown by solid data, then fine, let's do something about that . . . based upon real intelligence - not mob rule!
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Old 06-10-2020, 01:24 PM   #38
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Here's a 6 minute youtube that's interesting, and bears looking deeper into :

The Police Trainer Who Teaches Cops to Kill | The New Yorker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETf7NJOMS6Y
The police are 20 times more likely to die than the criminals by the police.
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Old 06-10-2020, 01:31 PM   #39
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However, you can't say this is conclusive proof rising to the level of empirical evidence - demonstrating systemic racism, right (are you saying that?)? Again, you can't manage what you don't measure, otherwise you'll just be having a knee-jerk reaction to what appears to be so, but may not be the actual case in reality. And does it apply to every police force, or just certain of them?

If there really is systemic racism shown by solid data, then fine,
let's do something about that . . . based upon real intelligence - not mob rule!
You can't manage what you don't measure?

You start talking real stats like that, you might get yourself killed.

The real problem in the 21st century, is not systemic racism, never was, stats prove that.

The root problem is union protection of bad actors. Every police department knows who their bad actors are real quick, when the complaints and lawsuits come rolling in, as with Derek Chauvin. Did you notice that none of his friends or family came to his defense? His wife filed for divorce that day after it all happened.
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Old 06-10-2020, 01:54 PM   #40
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You can't manage what you don't measure?

You start talking real stats like that, you might get yourself killed.

The real problem in the 21st century, is not systemic racism, never was, stats prove that.

The root problem is union protection of bad actors. Every police department knows who their bad actors are real quick, when the complaints and lawsuits come rolling in, as with Derek Chauvin. Did you notice that none of his friends or family came to his defense? His wife filed for divorce that day after it all happened.
Huh - police unions?! Actually, that strikes a chord with me. When I was in CA I had my first exposure to unions while working in a public school system, a job that lasted about 5 years. I was sent there as a contractor to train employees and put management systems and efficient practices in place, which were very sorely needed. The employee union fought us at every turn. An employee really, really had to be bad/rotten before the union would admit that something should be done with them (then getting something actually done with them was a different story). I was able to implement a few positive things at one point, as I developed something of a decent relationship with a new union steward. This steward was smarter than his predecessor, and realized certain employees were giving the union a bad name. I could work with him and we agreed it was a waste of energy to fight over every little thing . . . we learned which battles to pick, and that worked better for everyone.

And the school district administration simply caved whenever the union said "boo." It was very frustrating as I saw firsthand how much tax money was just going down the toilet, because of the ineffective system they had created.

That was one situation (among many) that made me glad to not live in California any more!
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Old 06-10-2020, 05:50 PM   #41
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Huh - police unions?! Actually, that strikes a chord with me. When I was in CA I had my first exposure to unions while working in a public school system, a job that lasted about 5 years. I was sent there as a contractor to train employees and put management systems and efficient practices in place, which were very sorely needed. The employee union fought us at every turn. An employee really, really had to be bad/rotten before the union would admit that something should be done with them (then getting something actually done with them was a different story). I was able to implement a few positive things at one point, as I developed something of a decent relationship with a new union steward. This steward was smarter than his predecessor, and realized certain employees were giving the union a bad name. I could work with him and we agreed it was a waste of energy to fight over every little thing . . . we learned which battles to pick, and that worked better for everyone.

And the school district administration simply caved whenever the union said "boo." It was very frustrating as I saw firsthand how much tax money was just going down the toilet, because of the ineffective system they had created.

That was one situation (among many) that made me glad to not live in California any more!
One brother of mine was asst manager at a food store chain. He caught an employee stealing beer and drinking in the back room. He fired the guy, but it went to court because of union protection. The union lawyer destroyed my brother on the witness stand. Later he resigned. Ever hear of too much of a good thing? That's the food unions. It's like life on junk food and desert. If a coworker wants to "eat healthy," i.e. work hard, they will go after him.

Every time we have a case of police brutality, we then find out this cop has a lengthy "rap sheet" of complaints. My other brother was living in NYC and driving to work when this murder occurred. It shook him up. Noel Polanco, a national guardsman, picked up a friend at work and was hurrying home. Another friend, an off-duty NYC cop was in the back seat. He cut off an unmarked swat team van. They stopped Noel and rushed his car. His friend in the friend seat said the driver's hands were on the wheel. No resistance, but one quick kill shot from the aggressive cop. Claimed the driver was reaching for a gun. The NYC police union had already paid out on two prior lawsuits for this bad cop. They obviously got to the off-duty police officer in the back seat, who later claimed to be sleeping thru the whole event. She traded justice for her future.

NYC Detective Hassan Hamdy, 40, was charged later with a single count: “failure to employ proper tactics that caused a civilian’s death." A Queens grand jury declined to indict Hamdy, a 15-year veteran and former U.S. Marine, of any criminal wrongdoing last year. Happens all the time.
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Old 06-11-2020, 09:35 AM   #42
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Happens all the time.
What's the difference now : CELL PHONES WITH CAMERAS.
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Old 06-11-2020, 10:50 AM   #43
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

Here's something really positive for the Kingdom: At the brothers' breakfast this morning, there was mention about the prayer and worship gatherings being held at the site of George Floyd's death - many are coming to Christ and are even being baptized!

Floyd Ministry Memorial Article

CBN Article about Floyd Intersection

"There are too many testimonies to recount!! They were able to preach to thousands and saw hundreds responding to the Gospel of Jesus!!"


Someone at breakfast made this comment: "Wouldn't it be interesting if we find out some day, that Mr. Floyd was actually a believer? And that his death was a falling into the ground that life would spring forth!?"
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Old 06-11-2020, 11:57 AM   #44
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Here's something really positive for the Kingdom: At the brothers' breakfast this morning, there was mention about the prayer and worship gatherings being held at the site of George Floyd's death - many are coming to Christ and are even being baptized!

Floyd Ministry Memorial Article

CBN Article about Floyd Intersection

"There are too many testimonies to recount!! They were able to preach to thousands and saw hundreds responding to the Gospel of Jesus!!"
Someone at breakfast made this comment: "Wouldn't it be interesting if we find out some day, that Mr. Floyd was actually a believer? And that his death was a falling into the ground that life would spring forth!?"

StG, thanks for the good news. What the devil is now using for death and destruction around the Western world, God can use for good! (Gen 50.20)

And here's more verses: Phil 1.15-18 It made me sick watching Sharpton preach out of strife, pretense, and contention, but still we should rejoice since Christ is announced! And we all should rejoice, "yes, and will rejoice!"
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Old 06-11-2020, 02:09 PM   #45
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Here's something really positive for the Kingdom: At the brothers' breakfast this morning, there was mention about the prayer and worship gatherings being held at the site of George Floyd's death - many are coming to Christ and are even being baptized!

Floyd Ministry Memorial Article

CBN Article about Floyd Intersection

"There are too many testimonies to recount!! They were able to preach to thousands and saw hundreds responding to the Gospel of Jesus!!"


Someone at breakfast made this comment: "Wouldn't it be interesting if we find out some day, that Mr. Floyd was actually a believer? And that his death was a falling into the ground that life would spring forth!?"
I guess Floyd is a sacrificial lamb ... and the cop is a pagan Roman. All we're missing is a cross.
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Old 06-11-2020, 03:12 PM   #46
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I guess Floyd is a sacrificial lamb ... and the cop is a pagan Roman. All we're missing is a cross.
It could be a Sampson type thing. Here's what I mean - this morning there was some conversation at the brothers' breakfast about how amazing the seed of life within us is. It will achieve its goal of transforming us into His image and bringing many sons to glory! So let's say Mr. Floyd received the Lord into him at an early age. (of course, we don't know either way, but just supposing) Then as he got older he struggled with a lot of issues and got into trouble repeatedly. Regardless, the Lord would have never left him and always loved him, and wanted his life to have real meaning and profit.

And what if God decided that even though Floyd's life looked to be a failure (and certainly in respect to the Kingdom of Christ), so that God would make "lemonade" out of the bitter lemons? And would not Mr. Floyd - and Jesus - then be more joyous that his life turned into a profit at his death, as many get saved as a result?

Who is to say?! God works in very mysterious ways to us. But one day we'll know the full story to this and many other events, and then He will really get all the glory!

But of course, Sampson gave his life willingly, so that's probably where the similarity in my little made-up story ends . . .
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Old 06-11-2020, 03:37 PM   #47
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George Floyd Left A Gospel Legacy In Houston
www.christianitytoday
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Old 06-11-2020, 03:45 PM   #48
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George Floyd Left A Gospel Legacy In Houston
www.christianitytoday
That link doesn't work, try this link:

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ne...rd-church.html
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Old 06-11-2020, 04:03 PM   #49
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Yes, I apologize for that no link. I found it can be located under a general Google search for Christianity Today and that article.
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Old 06-11-2020, 06:50 PM   #50
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Yes, I apologize for that no link. I found it can be located under a general Google search for Christianity Today and that article.
"The fact that he has been held up as a martyr sickens me.” - Candace Owens

But he is a martyr, a Christian martyr. Sorry Candace, you are wrong to make inflammatory statements denigrating Floyd. Shame on you.
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Old 06-11-2020, 07:07 PM   #51
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"The fact that he has been held up as a martyr sickens me.” - Candace Owens

But he is a martyr, a Christian martyr. Sorry Candace, you are wrong to make inflammatory statements denigrating Floyd. Shame on you.
Christian martyr? Says Pope awareness? Martyrs die for their profession of faith. They are the Lord's witnesses. George Floyd said nothing about the Lord.
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Old 06-12-2020, 08:47 AM   #52
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Christian martyr? Says Pope awareness? Martyrs die for their profession of faith. They are the Lord's witnesses. George Floyd said nothing about the Lord.
Ya know, I hafta agree. This is why, in my little imaginary story, I sort of imagined - what if he was saved. We don't know, although some news article seemed to allude to the fact that he might have done some "good works" in Houston, but I don't think I read there about specific professions towards Jesus. If he did, please point that out to us. I'm glad he was apparently doing good things, but that does not a Christian make by itself. (much like MLK I might add)

If he was really a brother - great! Nonetheless, the Lord is able to use this occurrence to bring some (hopefully many) to Him!
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Old 06-12-2020, 09:25 AM   #53
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Ya know, I hafta agree. This is why, in my little imaginary story, I sort of imagined - what if he was saved. We don't know, although some news article seemed to allude to the fact that he might have done some "good works" in Houston, but I don't think I read there about specific professions towards Jesus. If he did, please point that out to us. I'm glad he was apparently doing good things, but that does not a Christian make by itself. (much like MLK I might add)

If he was really a brother - great! Nonetheless, the Lord is able to use this occurrence to bring some (hopefully many) to Him!
And we can't know if they truly get saved and are real Christians either.

Pope Awareness ...
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Old 06-12-2020, 11:05 AM   #54
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And we can't know if they truly get saved and are real Christians either.

Pope Awareness ...
And I don't even know what I'm having for lunch!

"Pope Awareness" ---> you and bro Ohio seem to have a most "special" relationship on here . . .
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Old 06-12-2020, 02:02 PM   #55
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I remember signing this song when I was a kid in the SBC :

Jesus loves the little children
All the children of the world
Red, brown, yellow
Black and white
They are precious in His sight
Jesus loves the little children
Of the world
Jesus died for all the children
All the children of the world
Red, brown, yellow
Black and white
They are precious in His sight
Jesus died for all the children
Of the world.
Jesus rose for all the children
All the children of the world
Red, brown, yellow
Black and white
They are precious in His sight
Jesus rose for all the children
Of the world.

Now, finally, I think they mean it :

Christianity Today calls for churches to pay reparations to black people: "Repentance is not enough"

https://disrn.com/news/christianity-...-is-not-enough
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Old 06-12-2020, 02:24 PM   #56
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I remember signing this song when I was a kid in the SBC :

Jesus loves the little children
All the children of the world
Red, brown, yellow
Black and white
They are precious in His sight
Jesus loves the little children
Of the world
Jesus died for all the children
All the children of the world
Red, brown, yellow
Black and white
They are precious in His sight
Jesus died for all the children
Of the world.
Jesus rose for all the children
All the children of the world
Red, brown, yellow
Black and white
They are precious in His sight
Jesus rose for all the children
Of the world.

Now, finally, I think they mean it :

Christianity Today calls for churches to pay reparations to black people: "Repentance is not enough"

https://disrn.com/news/christianity-...-is-not-enough
Yes, I read that yesterday - now it's big news (on Drudge Report)!

Oh boy oh boy - where can I send all our money!?

Seriously, I think even the talk of reparations only makes things MUCH worse between the races!
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Old 06-12-2020, 04:17 PM   #57
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And I don't even know what I'm having for lunch!

"Pope Awareness" ---> you and bro Ohio seem to have a most "special" relationship on here . . .
Yeah, we love each other, and we're not even neighbors.
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Old 06-12-2020, 04:23 PM   #58
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Yes, I read that yesterday - now it's big news (on Drudge Report)!

Oh boy oh boy - where can I send all our money!?

Seriously, I think even the talk of reparations only makes things MUCH worse between the races!
I guess the SBC is feeling guilty for being founded back in the mid-19th c. all in for holding slaves ; using the Bible in support of it. I guess they no longer see the Bible in the same way, even tho the Bible, nor Jesus, nor Paul, speak out against slavery.
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Old 06-12-2020, 08:23 PM   #59
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I guess the SBC is feeling guilty for being founded back in the mid-19th c. all in for holding slaves ; using the Bible in support of it. I guess they no longer see the Bible in the same way, even tho the Bible, nor Jesus, nor Paul, speak out against slavery.
Since awareness was part of the Southern Baptist Church, I can understand why he feels that he owes reparations for decades of prejudice, along with penalties and interest.

But let's return to reality here, and recognize the insanity all around us. We now live in an age where completely innocent people are now guilty for crimes committed before they were born, and completely guilty people are no longer accountable for crimes they are committing right now.
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Old 06-12-2020, 08:27 PM   #60
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I remember signing this song when I was a kid in the SBC :

Jesus loves the little children
All the children of the world
Red, brown, yellow
Black and white
They are precious in His sight
Jesus loves the little children
Of the world
Jesus died for all the children
All the children of the world
Red, brown, yellow
Black and white
They are precious in His sight
Jesus died for all the children
Of the world.
Jesus rose for all the children
All the children of the world
Red, brown, yellow
Black and white
They are precious in His sight
Jesus rose for all the children
Of the world.

Now, finally, I think they mean it :
Sorry to break the news to you bro, but most of these anarchists are also atheists and don't seem to care two bits for Jesus love. They only asking for drugs, food, alcohol, cigarettes, weapons, and free tuition.
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Old 06-12-2020, 08:56 PM   #61
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I have a couple of questions for you and anyone else out here:

1) Are you against police brutality against blacks?

2) Are you anti-racism?

Please answer those questions, and then we can continue our discussion,
Yes and Yes and for good measure anti-double standards.
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Old 06-12-2020, 09:03 PM   #62
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Just as Hitler had an enforcement arm in the Brown Shirts (think that’s what they were called) that would beat opponents in the street, wreck stuff, etc, I wonder if the far
Left now has an enforcement arm in Antifa groups and the like. Though, it is not organized under one person as Hitler.
Antifa, KKK, Neo-nazis, etc are all fruit of the same tree.
Yes antifa is now what the brownshirts were in the early 1930's. In Berlin police were prohibited from obstructing brownshirts activities. Eventually brownshirts filled the role of police. Can you imagine police becoming disbanded and antifa filling the role as law enforcement. Scary thought. Toss civil liberties out the window.
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Old 06-13-2020, 11:06 AM   #63
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Antifa, KKK, Neo-nazis, etc are all fruit of the same tree.
Yes antifa is now what the brownshirts were in the early 1930's. In Berlin police were prohibited from obstructing brownshirts activities. Eventually brownshirts filled the role of police. Can you imagine police becoming disbanded and antifa filling the role as law enforcement. Scary thought. Toss civil liberties out the window.
Yes, we just need to keep in mind that this is all simply a fuller manifestation of Adam, and that the kingdom he is part of will become more and more manifested as the closing of the age gets nearer. But praise the Lord, where sin does abound . . . the grace of God much more!
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Old 06-13-2020, 12:40 PM   #64
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Sorry to break the news to you bro, but most of these anarchists are also atheists . . .
I wonder about that. Anyone have stats on it?

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Originally Posted by Ohio
and don't seem to care two bits for Jesus love. They only asking for drugs, food, alcohol, cigarettes, weapons, and free tuition.
And we're commanded by Jesus to love them, even if they are enemies, or atheists.

Not that it is easy, and most Christians don't even try to live up to it.
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Old 06-13-2020, 12:46 PM   #65
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Antifa, KKK, Neo-nazis, etc are all fruit of the same tree.
Yes antifa is now what the brownshirts were in the early 1930's. In Berlin police were prohibited from obstructing brownshirts activities. Eventually brownshirts filled the role of police. Can you imagine police becoming disbanded and antifa filling the role as law enforcement. Scary thought. Toss civil liberties out the window.
That would more likely be the far right boogaloo boys, whose stated purpose is a race war, civil war, and over throw of the government.
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Old 06-13-2020, 12:57 PM   #66
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I wonder about that. Anyone have stats on it?

And we're commanded by Jesus to love them, even if they are enemies, or atheists.

Not that it is easy, and most Christians don't even try to live up to it.
Anybody have stats on that?
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Old 06-13-2020, 01:41 PM   #67
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Anybody have stats on that?
I know at least one.
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Old 06-13-2020, 03:15 PM   #68
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I know at least one.
Now I understand.


Your generalizations are made on a sample size of one.
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Old 06-13-2020, 05:27 PM   #69
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And we're commanded by Jesus to love them, even if they are enemies, or atheists.

Not that it is easy, and most Christians don't even try to live up to it.
Well, here's a news flash - the message is we CAN'T LOVE without Him! I'm convinced all I can do is pray, "Lord, I don't have it in me . . . You hafta love this person through me!" (then act in faith that He is supplying)
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Old 06-14-2020, 09:04 AM   #70
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Well, here's a news flash - the message is we CAN'T LOVE without Him! I'm convinced all I can do is pray, "Lord, I don't have it in me . . . You hafta love this person through me!" (then act in faith that He is supplying)
Very interesting bro StG. I hope you're trusting in the Jesus in the gospels, and not the one in the book of Revelation.
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Old 06-14-2020, 09:14 AM   #71
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Very interesting bro StG. I hope you're trusting in the Jesus in the gospels, and not the one in the book of Revelation.
It's a different Jesus in Revelation? I don't think so! My eyes were opened regarding this when we went through Revelation again a couple years ago - believe it or not it is really a book of love! Judgments are only toward exposing and eradicating the dark kingdom.

Yes, if man aligns himself with this evil, then he will partake of the judgment poured out, but love dictates the cancer has to be removed.
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Old 06-14-2020, 02:05 PM   #72
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It's a different Jesus in Revelation? I don't think so! My eyes were opened regarding this when we went through Revelation again a couple years ago - believe it or not it is really a book of love! Judgments are only toward exposing and eradicating the dark kingdom.

Yes, if man aligns himself with this evil, then he will partake of the judgment poured out, but love dictates the cancer has to be removed.
I guess after 65 years, when Rev was written, Jesus forgot about love your enemies.
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Old 06-14-2020, 06:28 PM   #73
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I guess after 65 years, when Rev was written, Jesus forgot about love your enemies.
Huh? If your enemy is a cancer (aka Satan & his kingdom) and just wants to kill & destroy everyone you created, you should "love" him!? Love your enemies has to do with your fellow man, not completely corrupt and insidiously evil principalities. Again, if someone completely aligns with the cancer, that's their choice and they will then needlessly suffer the consequences of that choice, right?
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Old 06-14-2020, 07:01 PM   #74
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We had a BLM protest rally in our little community today. Most folks in the community believe that all lives matter. I doubt if the Burn, Loot, Murder crowd would get any sympathy once they start their pernicious ways.

The BLM movement is both racist and hypocritical. Racist because they want certain lives to be more valuable than others, and hypocritical because so many black lives are lost when they begin to riot.
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Old 06-14-2020, 07:21 PM   #75
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Huh? If your enemy is a cancer (aka Satan & his kingdom) and just wants to kill & destroy everyone you created, you should "love" him!? Love your enemies has to do with your fellow man, not completely corrupt and insidiously evil principalities. Again, if someone completely aligns with the cancer, that's their choice and they will then needlessly suffer the consequences of that choice, right?
You remind me of the leftist movement to de-fund the police, as if the police are the enemy of law-abiding citizens. The actual citizens of these ravaged communities are actually crying out for justice and more police presence, as in Rev 6.10, "And they cried out with a loud voice saying, How long O sovereign Lord, holy and true, will You not judge and avenge our blood?" The criminals, composed of rioting anarchists, and disguised as peaceful protesters by day, work with certain corrupt city leaders to "steal, kill, and destroy." (John 10)
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Old 06-14-2020, 09:54 PM   #76
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Huh? If your enemy is a cancer (aka Satan & his kingdom) and just wants to kill & destroy everyone you created, you should "love" him!? Love your enemies has to do with your fellow man, not completely corrupt and insidiously evil principalities. Again, if someone completely aligns with the cancer, that's their choice and they will then needlessly suffer the consequences of that choice, right?
The book is not speaking of cancerous cells. It speaks of real human beings.

But hey, there's harps of God, lots of 'em. You can have mine. i'm not a fan of harps.

But I don't think you really want to hear my take on Rev. All I'll say is : Preterism. And kindly end it at that.

Blessings bro ... and hope you avoid the bowls of the wrath of God.
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Old 06-14-2020, 11:11 PM   #77
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Racist because they want certain lives to be more valuable than others,
No, I think they want to matter as much as whites.
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Old 06-15-2020, 07:28 AM   #78
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No, I think they want to matter as much as whites.
Of course black lives matter, all lives matter, blue lives matter, and the lives of the unborn also matter. But that's not the point. Statistics prove that. A police officer is more likely to be killed by a bad guy rather than the other way around. More white guys get killed by police than blacks. And worse than all -- blacks are killing blacks at record levels!

The current protests give the impression that the police single out blacks. The protests then become the way to end the police, create chaos, justify rioting, murder, and looting. Neighborhoods and lives are then ruined. Who cares about them? What do these poor people do to get around, buy food and supplies?

But the media ignores their plight and is actually endorsing this anarchy. Prior to this, they were shaming all Americans for leaving their homes. This was like dry kindling ready for ignition. I have always felt that protesters should not be allowed to wear masks. Now we have the perfect storm.

The police need some serious reform. How does a guy die after selling "loosey" cigarettes (Eric Garner)? How does a guy die after passing a bogus Jackson (George Floyd)? How does a guy die after falling asleep in a drive thru (Rayshard Brooks)? This is what troubles lots of people.
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Old 06-15-2020, 08:53 AM   #79
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The book is not speaking of cancerous cells. It speaks of real human beings.

But hey, there's harps of God, lots of 'em. You can have mine. i'm not a fan of harps.

But I don't think you really want to hear my take on Rev. All I'll say is : Preterism. And kindly end it at that.

Blessings bro ... and hope you avoid the bowls of the wrath of God.
There are two kingdoms operating in this world - the kingdom of light and the kingdom of darkness. It started with the two trees in the garden. The tree of life remains in the end and the other must be uprooted. What's so difficult about understanding that?

Uprooting is not pleasant, and will not be for those who make their home in that tree/kingdom. But many will be frightened and call on the Savior. Therefore, as many as can be saved, will be saved out of that evil system. The progressive judgements will be a mercy to mankind, as it will wake many up. (at the same time it will cause the real enemy - the "cancer" - to go bananas, because he knows his time is short - hallelujah!)

Seems pretty easy to understand, at least to me.
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Old 06-15-2020, 08:54 AM   #80
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No, I think they want to matter as much as whites.
Adam always sees himself as a victim - "It was that woman You gave me!"
That's when it started. Nothing's changed in that dark kingdom.
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Old 06-15-2020, 09:07 AM   #81
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Of course black lives matter, all lives matter, blue lives matter, and the lives of the unborn also matter. But that's not the point. Statistics prove that. A police officer is more likely to be killed by a bad guy rather than the other way around. More white guys get killed by police than blacks. And worse than all -- blacks are killing blacks at record levels!

The current protests give the impression that the police single out blacks. The protests then become the way to end the police, create chaos, justify rioting, murder, and looting. Neighborhoods and lives are then ruined. Who cares about them? What do these poor people do to get around, buy food and supplies?

But the media ignores their plight and is actually endorsing this anarchy. Prior to this, they were shaming all Americans for leaving their homes. This was like dry kindling ready for ignition. I have always felt that protesters should not be allowed to wear masks. Now we have the perfect storm.

The police need some serious reform. How does a guy die after selling "loosey" cigarettes (Eric Garner)? How does a guy die after passing a bogus Jackson (George Floyd)? How does a guy die after falling asleep in a drive thru (Rayshard Brooks)? This is what troubles lots of people.
I'm right here with you in your thinking, bro! Look, there are a lot of jugheads in law enforcement (like everywhere else). They have a tough job and have to be prepared at all times to use force. That use of force can then be easily abused. I remember being frightened out of my wits one time in the back of a police car, mainly just because I had long hair (circa early 70s). The guy wanted to show me, in no uncertain terms, that he was either going to Mace me or club me (fortunately he didn't do either). But then other times I was picked up, and the cops were pretty nice to me. Over all, they were nice more than not (i.e., back when I was a wannabe hippie type).

But I am white. Blacks commit a disproportionately higher number of crimes (including violet crimes) than whites, even considering that they are only 13% of the overall population. So cops are influenced by this knowledge and tend to profile. It's natural and is a knee-jerk, fear-based instinct. (Adam sorta profiled both God and Eve when he blamed the two of them for his downfall.)
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Old 06-15-2020, 09:14 AM   #82
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Of course black lives matter, all lives matter, blue lives matter, and the lives of the unborn also matter. But that's not the point. Statistics prove that. A police officer is more likely to be killed by a bad guy rather than the other way around. More white guys get killed by police than blacks. And worse than all -- blacks are killing blacks at record levels!

The current protests give the impression that the police single out blacks. The protests then become the way to end the police, create chaos, justify rioting, murder, and looting. Neighborhoods and lives are then ruined. Who cares about them? What do these poor people do to get around, buy food and supplies?

But the media ignores their plight and is actually endorsing this anarchy. Prior to this, they were shaming all Americans for leaving their homes. This was like dry kindling ready for ignition. I have always felt that protesters should not be allowed to wear masks. Now we have the perfect storm.

The police need some serious reform. How does a guy die after selling "loosey" cigarettes (Eric Garner)? How does a guy die after passing a bogus Jackson (George Floyd)? How does a guy die after falling asleep in a drive thru (Rayshard Brooks)? This is what troubles lots of people.
I think there's just too many "Karens" out there, and people of color have had enough of it.

And, given the 1033 program, where cops look like military out on the battle field, what do they expect? Then add cameras showing cops gunning down people, especially people of color, in the back, while running away, and 8:48 is the match to the tinder box.

And then, add to all that, Covid crazy, and we've got massive protesters, made up of people of all colors, ... that, as I sang as a kid, Jesus loves.
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Old 06-15-2020, 06:43 PM   #83
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I think there's just too many "Karens" out there, and people of color have had enough of it.

And then, add to all that, Covid crazy, and we've got massive protesters, made up of people of all colors, ... that, as I sang as a kid, Jesus loves.
According to awareness, it sounds like BLM is what America needs -- Burning down their cities, Looting all their shops, and Murdering their neighbors is the right thing to do then?

Because Jesus loves them, eh?

Wait until the rest of the people have "had enough of it" too.
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Old 06-15-2020, 08:34 PM   #84
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The police need some serious reform. How does a guy die after selling "loosey" cigarettes (Eric Garner)? How does a guy die after passing a bogus Jackson (George Floyd)? How does a guy die after falling asleep in a drive thru (Rayshard Brooks)? This is what troubles lots of people.
Good points!
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Old 06-15-2020, 09:26 PM   #85
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According to awareness, it sounds like BLM is what America needs -- Burning down their cities, Looting all their shops, and Murdering their neighbors is the right thing to do then?
You have a wild imagination bro Ohio, with your "all."
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Old 06-15-2020, 09:33 PM   #86
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You have a wild imagination bro Ohio, with your "all."
Read the news, bro.
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Old 06-16-2020, 02:05 AM   #87
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Read the news, bro.
I read the news from various sites every morning, starting with Drudge, Fox, Knewz, Mail online, and a number of others. I don't really trust any of them.
I see bias in all of them.

Do you have a particular one in mind? Do you have a hotline to the one and only true news, that even knows what goes on in secret and behind closed doors, and top classified, with an all seeing eye, seeing everywhere and everything going on all at the same time? You certainly act that way. Like you're special, with the deepest insight and broadest knowledge.

Or maybe you get you're info straight from God.
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Old 06-16-2020, 05:04 AM   #88
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You have a wild imagination bro Ohio, with your "all."
Who, what, where, why, how is this character "all?"
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Old 06-16-2020, 07:53 AM   #89
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Protesters Pull Down Joe Biden After Mistaking Him For Old Racist Statue



WASHINGTON, D.C.—Enraged protesters were marching through D.C. toppling racist statues when they came upon one standing on a street corner. The archaic, racist statue looked very, very old. It even had some kind of obsolete soundbite-playing device in it, probably an early phonograph from how old the statue looked. It kept saying things about black people being clean and articulate and how poor kids are just as bright as white kids.

The rioters threw a lasso around the top of the statue after googling "How to tie a lasso" and arguing for a while about how lassos are racist. They then brought it tumbling down after graffitiing all over it.

Unfortunately, the old, racist statue turned out to be former vice president and current presidential candidate Joe Biden.

"Classic pranksters," Biden said, chuckling, as he dusted himself off. "You know, this happens from time to time. Back in my day, we were out at the community pool, hanging out and throwing rocks at each other, as was the fashion at the time. CornPop and I were dishing it out and running our fingers through our leg hairs when..." As he continued to drone on, though, another racist group came up and toppled him the other way.

Eventually the rioters had had their fun and moved on, knocking over Nancy Pelosi and Ruth Bader Ginsburg, mistaking both of them for ancient statues.
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Old 06-16-2020, 08:52 AM   #90
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I read the news from various sites every morning, starting with Drudge, Fox, Knewz, Mail online, and a number of others. I don't really trust any of them.
I see bias in all of them.

Do you have a particular one in mind? Do you have a hotline to the one and only true news, that even knows what goes on in secret and behind closed doors, and top classified, with an all seeing eye, seeing everywhere and everything going on all at the same time? You certainly act that way. Like you're special, with the deepest insight and broadest knowledge.

Or maybe you get you're info straight from God.
They are all tilted one way or another, because they're all of Adam! I look at a few sites almost daily, including some you mentioned. I also get The Week, a weekly magazine (aptly named). For most subjects, it quotes other news sources from right, left and the middle. However, in the end, they still tilt left, as just about any piece they do concludes with a left-leaning view or source. But since I know that upfront, I make the necessary mental adjustments.

And the best advice regarding the news I think, is not to get too much of it! We are what we eat, and if we eat a bunch of fear and confusion all the time, guess what!?
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Old 06-16-2020, 09:26 AM   #91
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I read the news from various sites every morning, starting with Drudge, Fox, Knewz, Mail online, and a number of others. I don't really trust any of them.
I get all my news from the Babylon Bee. Completely trustworthy. And it cheers me up!
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Old 06-16-2020, 10:05 AM   #92
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Apparently the new northwest welfare nation (formerly the East Police Precinct in Seattle) of CHAZ / CHOP needs a few supplies:



Since we are basically repeating many of the same events which occurred during the French Revolution, note that for those who refuse to cooperate with the new regime, "permanent" public shaming techniques are now being prepared:

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Old 06-16-2020, 11:20 AM   #93
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They are all tilted one way or another, because they're all of Adam! I look at a few sites almost daily, including some you mentioned. I also get The Week, a weekly magazine (aptly named). For most subjects, it quotes other news sources from right, left and the middle. However, in the end, they still tilt left, as just about any piece they do concludes with a left-leaning view or source. But since I know that upfront, I make the necessary mental adjustments.

And the best advice regarding the news I think, is not to get too much of it! We are what we eat, and if we eat a bunch of fear and confusion all the time, guess what!?
I too make the necessary mental adjustments when reading news from the left, right, and middle.

I want to see it all, and all the awful news around the world. And it's ugly. But I've been doing it for so long I'm immune to it. I guess I've developed mental clauses.
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Old 06-16-2020, 11:35 AM   #94
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Here's the real Trump photo op:

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Old 06-16-2020, 12:04 PM   #95
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OK - can we get back to, or at least stay more in line with the main topic, and not do this thing?



I understand politics comes into this topic, but . . .
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Old 06-16-2020, 01:05 PM   #96
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Here's the real Trump photo op:
The media never covered how Trump was brutally attacked outside of his home. How courageous!

If they rioted in your front yard, I'm sure you would fire up that "pump action."
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Old 06-17-2020, 08:59 AM   #97
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The media never covered how Trump was brutally attacked outside of his home. How courageous!

If they rioted in your front yard, I'm sure you would fire up that "pump action."
No. I would take a knee. Like Trump should have.
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Old 06-17-2020, 09:47 AM   #98
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No. I would take a knee. Like Trump should have.
Who are you bowing down to?


Are you god? Telling Trump to take a knee?
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Old 06-17-2020, 10:27 AM   #99
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Who are you bowing down to?


Are you god? Telling Trump to take a knee?
The knee thing bothers me (yes, I know what it apparently is supposed to symbolize). I'm not sure exactly what it's supposed to mean. And it does seem like in doing it you're being subservient to something, but I'm not sure what . . .
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Old 06-17-2020, 05:16 PM   #100
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The knee thing bothers me (yes, I know what it apparently is supposed to symbolize). I'm not sure exactly what it's supposed to mean. And it does seem like in doing it you're being subservient to something, but I'm not sure what . . .
Goes back to the lovely Nessa Diab, the angry Bay Area muslim socialist radio talk host girlfriend of Colin Kaepernick, who seduced him to embrace her over the Christian faith he grew up with his adoptive parents. Nessa convinced Colin that America is evil, and that he should never respect the flag, our nation's symbol. Colin then began to kneel at the anthem, which many, including Trump protested. When Colin exercised his free agency clause of his contract, passing up millions with the 49ers, no other team signed him. So Colin made it about race, even though he has more white privilege than most others in the NFL.

The movement to kneel means you support black lives matter, hate Trump, hate police, hate Confederate symbols, hate Confederate leaders, hate all American founding fathers, and reject your white privilege. That is for the non-violent types. They have linked with ANTIFA's which hate all moderate Democrats and Conservatives.

Kneeling is now the bully tactic to force your subjection to their many whims. They are now extracting thuggery protection payments like the Mafia. Even if you pay up, like Wendy's who just gave $500K, they may still burn you down as a message to others.
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Old 06-18-2020, 08:36 AM   #101
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Who are you bowing down to?


Are you god? Telling Trump to take a knee?
To your hubris I say yes and yes ... and yes yes yes yes yes.
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Old 06-18-2020, 08:38 AM   #102
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The knee thing bothers me (yes, I know what it apparently is supposed to symbolize). I'm not sure exactly what it's supposed to mean. And it does seem like in doing it you're being subservient to something, but I'm not sure what . . .
Sorry StG ... but hogwash. It stands against police brutality against blacks.
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Old 06-18-2020, 08:40 AM   #103
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Goes back to the lovely Nessa Diab, the angry Bay Area muslim socialist radio talk host girlfriend of Colin Kaepernick, who seduced him to embrace her over the Christian faith he grew up with his adoptive parents. Nessa convinced Colin that America is evil, and that he should never respect the flag,
That's a Trump position. But Trump often sees things that aren't there. Taking a knee has nothing to do with the flag.
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Old 06-18-2020, 08:43 AM   #104
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Talking about killing minorities.

BLM has killed Aunt Jemima, Uncle Ben, and Mrs. Butterworth.
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Old 06-18-2020, 09:45 AM   #105
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Sorry StG ... but hogwash. It stands against police brutality against blacks.
You misunderstand - I really don't know what it means. If, as you say, all it means is one is anti-police brutality against blacks, then sure, I'm for it.

However, I hope you can respect that I don't intend to physically take "a knee" for this cause (according to Romans 14:3).
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Old 06-18-2020, 09:46 AM   #106
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Talking about killing minorities.

BLM has killed Aunt Jemima, Uncle Ben, and Mrs. Butterworth.
All our beloved institutions and symbols - what ever shall we do!?!?

Turn your eyes upon Jesus
Look full in His wonderful face
And the things of earth
Will grow strangely dim
In the light of His
Glory and Grace!
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Old 06-18-2020, 09:48 AM   #107
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That's a Trump position. But Trump often sees things that aren't there. Taking a knee has nothing to do with the flag.
Not Trump at all. It was a anti-American Muslim position Colin Kaepernick got from his GF. Today everything, cancel culture, rioters, antifa, pro-abortion, pro-muslim, anti-Christian, open borders, gun-control, etc. etc. is hiding behind the Racist Banner. Here is an article:

Colin Kaepernick’s Communist-Sympathizing Muslim Girlfriend Believed To Be Behind Protest


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Old 06-18-2020, 09:52 AM   #108
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All our beloved institutions and symbols - what ever shall we do!?!?

Turn your eyes upon Jesus
Look full in His wonderful face
And the things of earth
Will grow strangely dip
In the light of His
Glory and Grace!
not "strangely dip" but strangely dim
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Old 06-18-2020, 09:55 AM   #109
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not "strangely dip" but strangely dim
Thanks! Corrected now. (yer hired as a proof-reader!)
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Old 06-18-2020, 10:09 AM   #110
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Not Trump at all. It was a anti-American Muslim position Colin Kaepernick got from his GF. Today everything, cancel culture, rioters, antifa, pro-abortion, pro-muslim, anti-Christian, open borders, gun-control, etc. etc. is hiding behind the Racist Banner. Here is an article:

Colin Kaepernick’s Communist-Sympathizing Muslim Girlfriend Believed To Be Behind Protest


And I suppose that Trump's communist wife, and parents, have no influence on Trump. Who begged China's president to help him win 2020.
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Old 06-18-2020, 10:28 AM   #111
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And I suppose that Trump's communist wife, and parents, have no influence on Trump. Who begged China's president to help him win 2020.
In the words of our Dear Moderator (DM) - ENOUGH! This topic is about police actions with minorities, not about which side of the aisle is most evil (good luck figuring that out).

Please:
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Old 06-18-2020, 09:23 PM   #112
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In the words of our Dear Moderator (DM) - ENOUGH! This topic is about police actions with minorities, not about which side of the aisle is most evil (good luck figuring that out).
Okay, our bad, Ohio and me, for mention of communists either related to Kaepernick or in the White House today.

So is Juneteenth on topic? How about the worst vigilante mob violence against blacks in our history, in Tulsa. The cops were there too, and allowed it, but claimed they couldn't stop the mob. I know it happened in the early 20th c. But is it relevant to today?
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Old 06-18-2020, 09:55 PM   #113
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Okay, our bad, Ohio and me, for mention of communists either related to Kaepernick or in the White House today.

So is Juneteenth on topic? How about the worst vigilante mob violence against blacks in our history, in Tulsa. The cops were there too, and allowed it, but claimed they couldn't stop the mob. I know it happened in the early 20th c. But is it relevant to today?
If I were a POC, I could declare ole awareness a racist, forever silence him, and demand that he take a knee.

If ...
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Old 06-18-2020, 10:02 PM   #114
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Okay, our bad, Ohio and me, for mention of communists either related to Kaepernick or in the White House today.

So is Juneteenth on topic? How about the worst vigilante mob violence against blacks in our history, in Tulsa. The cops were there too, and allowed it, but claimed they couldn't stop the mob. I know it happened in the early 20th c. But is it relevant to today?
Unless you understand the Communist origins to the ANTIFA movement and its continued activity since the 1930's in America, you will think that what you see happening today is due to racism.

It's not.
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Old 06-19-2020, 10:46 AM   #115
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Okay, our bad, Ohio and me, for mention of communists either related to Kaepernick or in the White House today.
This topic was started regarding whether there is widespread, systemic racism in our police forces causing a distinct inclination of brutal behavior toward blacks. So thanks for your understanding - and I think the larger topic of general racism is perhaps not too far off. Unfortunately, like everything else these days, this topic can quickly get us off into the snorkeling-in-the-weeds of partisan politics!

From my standpoint, the anecdotal evidence is that I don't see the racism we're told is rampant in this country. I don't act in racists ways, nor does anyone I know. I have not seen it personally, especially in the more recent years. In Scottsdale there aren't a high percentage of black people, but some. There are a few blacks in our neighborhood and our ekklesia and I don't see any racism happening in these places. But again, this is just my personal, middle-aged white man anecdotal evidence.

(Let me say that I grew up with racism in the home of my grandparents who raised me. My grandfather was a KKK member in his early life. He let the N-word fly a lot. He would call the black trash collectors the N-word behind their back, but then be super nice to their face. He bought into all the stereotypical lies about blacks and voiced these frequently. But then as a teenager, I had a few good friends who were black - one was best man at my wedding. So I did experience racism in my early life.)

Does racism in our country occur? I'm sure it does, but other than what the media tells me, I don't personally see it around me. I also haven't seen the overwhelming evidence of systemic racism showing up in empirical data. The data and studies I have looked at, doesn't demonstrate the huge problem of systemic racism we're being told is rampant in our police forces. That's not to say some problem don't exist . . . it's just that either it's not as big as we're being told, or perhaps the studies are way off in their analytical methods.

As Christians, we know all these bad things exist in Adam. The list of negative and evil things present in Adam's race are long, and this includes racism and murder. Can I say I'm not guilty of having racist thoughts? No, I can't say that, because I still have the flesh. I have all kinds of thoughts that by the grace of God I don't act on because they are not of the new man, but rather of that old man. So what we are seeing in the world now is another manifestation of the old Adam man. He can't be fixed, and the one solution is his death. As Christians we know that anything else is mostly just putting the proverbial lipstick on the pig.

Adam likes to react in a knee-jerk fashion to things. All of this BLM stuff that's all the rage and being thrust into our face ("Why are they disquieted in vain?") . . . fine. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion in this country in a civil way. But I also have the choice to want to see a bonefide demonstration of solid empirical evidence before we react.
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Old 06-19-2020, 10:56 AM   #116
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This topic was started regarding whether there is widespread, systemic racism in our police forces causing a distinct inclination of brutal behavior toward blacks. So thanks for your understanding - and I think the larger topic of general racism is perhaps not too far off. Unfortunately, like everything else these days, this topic can quickly get us off into the snorkeling-in-the-weeds of partisan politics!
I don't think this thread went off topic. Because the real topic is how do we define racism?

Until racism is defined, specifically racism by police, there can never be a discussion. For example, the death of George Floyd, was that racism or police brutality, or perhaps both?
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Old 06-19-2020, 11:07 AM   #117
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I don't think this thread went off topic. Because the real topic is how do we define racism?

Until racism is defined, specifically racism by police, there can never be a discussion. For example, the death of George Floyd, was that racism or police brutality, or perhaps both?
Didn't go off topic? Well . . . sure . . . whatever. Let me just respond to your last question. The evidence I've seen definitely makes it appear as brutality. Racism? Perhaps, but I don't know what was in the cop's heart. So it could have been both, but that in and of itself does not demonstrate widespread systemic racism.
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Old 06-19-2020, 11:12 AM   #118
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Adam likes to react in a knee-jerk fashion to things. All of this BLM stuff that's all the rage and being thrust into our face ("Why are they disquieted in vain?") . . . fine. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion in this country in a civil way. But I also have the choice to want to see a bona fide demonstration of solid empirical evidence before we react.
I have seen and read and heard that much of the protests by blacks, loosely under the BLM umbrella, have been peaceful. The ANTIFA folks, who are mostly white youth, have not been peaceful.

The black community is not united in protest either. Young men particularly are the most loud-spoken about police brutality. Commonly known fact: “It’s important to note that black men commit nearly half of all murders in this country, which is astounding when you take into consideration the fact that they only make up 12-13 per cent of the population.” Obviously this fact alone will create much tension with the police, regardless of their color.

The law-abiding blacks, mostly families with young and old, however, see the police as friends and protectors. Without the police they become defenseless. They are the real victims in all these rioted communities. In fact, the real unspoken tension does not lie between black communities and the police, but between young blacks and the police.

It would be nice for the media to cover the tension between the protesting blacks, the shop owners, and the rioting, burning white Antifas. (Note that nothing today is homogeneous, and all characterizations will always be flawed.)
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Old 06-19-2020, 11:20 AM   #119
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Didn't go off topic? Well . . . sure . . . whatever. Let me just respond to your last question. The evidence I've seen definitely makes it appear as brutality. Racism? Perhaps, but I don't know what was in the cop's heart. So it could have been both, but that in and of itself does not demonstrate widespread systemic racism.
Makes what appear as brutality?


You referring to Floyd or Brooks?
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Old 06-19-2020, 11:57 AM   #120
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Makes what appear as brutality?


You referring to Floyd or Brooks?
Apparent brutality by the cop. (That is, the infamous video of Floyd with the cop's knee on his neck.)
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Old 06-19-2020, 07:28 PM   #121
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Apparent brutality by the cop. (That is, the infamous video of Floyd with the cop's knee on his neck.)
Definitely Floyd died due to brutality by one or more bad cops.

But . . . was it also racist?

And the bigger questions:
  • Are all cops brutal?
  • Are all cops racist?
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Old 06-19-2020, 09:57 PM   #122
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This topic was started regarding whether there is widespread, systemic racism in our police forces causing a distinct inclination of brutal behavior toward blacks. So thanks for your understanding - and I think the larger topic of general racism is perhaps not too far off. Unfortunately, like everything else these days, this topic can quickly get us off into the snorkeling-in-the-weeds of partisan politics!

From my standpoint, the anecdotal evidence is that I don't see the racism we're told is rampant in this country. I don't act in racists ways, nor does anyone I know. I have not seen it personally, especially in the more recent years. In Scottsdale there aren't a high percentage of black people, but some. There are a few blacks in our neighborhood and our ekklesia and I don't see any racism happening in these places. But again, this is just my personal, middle-aged white man anecdotal evidence.

(Let me say that I grew up with racism in the home of my grandparents who raised me. My grandfather was a KKK member in his early life. He let the N-word fly a lot. He would call the black trash collectors the N-word behind their back, but then be super nice to their face. He bought into all the stereotypical lies about blacks and voiced these frequently. But then as a teenager, I had a few good friends who were black - one was best man at my wedding. So I did experience racism in my early life.)

Does racism in our country occur? I'm sure it does, but other than what the media tells me, I don't personally see it around me. I also haven't seen the overwhelming evidence of systemic racism showing up in empirical data. The data and studies I have looked at, doesn't demonstrate the huge problem of systemic racism we're being told is rampant in our police forces. That's not to say some problem don't exist . . . it's just that either it's not as big as we're being told, or perhaps the studies are way off in their analytical methods.

As Christians, we know all these bad things exist in Adam. The list of negative and evil things present in Adam's race are long, and this includes racism and murder. Can I say I'm not guilty of having racist thoughts? No, I can't say that, because I still have the flesh. I have all kinds of thoughts that by the grace of God I don't act on because they are not of the new man, but rather of that old man. So what we are seeing in the world now is another manifestation of the old Adam man. He can't be fixed, and the one solution is his death. As Christians we know that anything else is mostly just putting the proverbial lipstick on the pig.

Adam likes to react in a knee-jerk fashion to things. All of this BLM stuff that's all the rage and being thrust into our face ("Why are they disquieted in vain?") . . . fine. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion in this country in a civil way. But I also have the choice to want to see a bonefide demonstration of solid empirical evidence before we react.
All the very many, widespread, black lives matter protesters are like the weather ; like it or not we can't do anything about it.

And the data doesn't matter, except maybe to partisans looking for faults, and talking heads on TV, and sociology academics. It's perception that matters. And apparently, very many people perceive that there's a cop problem, and it looks like it's targeted more toward people of color.

I think we are witnessing some kind of a civil rights second great awaking ... in our modern times ; since MLK Jr.

Never the less, like it or not, all these goings-on are making changes happen : new things are happening, changes, a reshaping of our society is afoot.

Personally, I don't like the violence, from or by, either side -- both sides have bad apples -- they are after all made up of human primates -- both and all sides -- like all of us. If we were/are all angels we wouldn't need movements like we're seeing today. Just accept it. It's like a widespread weather system sweeping thru our collective consciousness

And then, let's not forget, there's the pandemic, causing Covid crazies. It must be one of the symptoms. I'm staying away from them, and cops, and protesters.

Harold
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Old 06-20-2020, 04:54 AM   #123
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And the data doesn't matter, except maybe to partisans looking for faults, and talking heads on TV, and sociology academics. It's perception that matters. And apparently, very many people perceive that there's a cop problem, and it looks like it's targeted more toward people of color.
Awareness said it exactly right: It's perception that matters.

And who is driving this perception? A whole host of nefarious actors. And what is their agenda?

Listening and reading a diversity of black conservative scholars and talkers, many are convinced that this movement is not and will not benefit black people. Once again they are being used for others' benefit.

All they will get is more crime, burned out neighborhoods, and another black holiday or two -- Juneteenth Day and George Floyd Day will replace Columbus Day and Presidents Day.
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Old 06-20-2020, 08:17 AM   #124
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Awareness said it exactly right: It's perception that matters.
Yes, agree! Perception is what is important to Adam. For example, the entire value of the worldwide stock market is based upon man's perception of value. One day he sees great value in something so it is priced very high. The next day, driven by fear, the perceived value drops precipitously. When I saw that happen, after one of the several market crashes in the last 20 years, it made me realize that what man bases his reality on is just shifting sand.
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Old 06-20-2020, 12:45 PM   #125
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Nearly 75 percent of disgruntled DC cops want to quit amid national protests while NYC murders have increased by 70 percent since unrest began and shootings in the Big Apple have more than doubled

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...0-percent.html
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Old 06-20-2020, 01:04 PM   #126
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Nearly 75 percent of disgruntled DC cops want to quit amid national protests while NYC murders have increased by 70 percent since unrest began and shootings in the Big Apple have more than doubled

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...0-percent.html
This is what knee-jerk reactions get you. I just heard of an ex-neighbor lady who began sleeping with a revolver under her pillow because she's lost confidence. She's a believer too, but this is reacting out of fear. Lots of fast reactions and quick counter-reactions going on in the world now, and God only knows (literally) where it will wind-up. Only He can save us from ourselves!
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Old 06-20-2020, 01:35 PM   #127
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LINK: Muhammad Ali's son says he would've hated Black Lives Matters

Muhammad Ali's son speaks out against BLM saying it is unnecessary and divisive.

“It’s pitting black people against everyone else. It starts racial things to happen; I hate that.”

"Ali (the son) says he was never singled out by cops for his skin color, and defends them against charges of institutional racism."
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Old 06-20-2020, 07:39 PM   #128
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"Ali (the son) says he was never singled out by cops for his skin color, and defends them against charges of institutional racism."[/I]
And we can trust MA jr's opinion why?
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Old 06-20-2020, 09:46 PM   #129
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D.C. protesters pull down, burn statue of Confederate general

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...general-330132

And Trump goes off :

Quote:
"The D.C. Police are not doing their job as they watch a statue be ripped down & burn," he tweeted. Trump also tagged the city's mayor, Muriel Bowser, a Democrat with whom he has clashed repeatedly in recent weeks. "These people should be immediately arrested. A disgrace to our Country!"
I'm thinking there's now shaping up the possibility that cop abuse, and BLM aren't going to be the top perception our nation will be concerned with, cuz civil war is now becoming a distinct possibility.

Let's hope not. Cuz then no lives will matter to each side, toward the opposite side.

It's time we all stop provoking and perpetuating a "Us v. Them" mentality. We're all a diverse family. It's so simple children can understand it :

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Old 06-21-2020, 01:39 AM   #130
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D.C. protesters pull down, burn statue of Confederate general

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...general-330132

And Trump goes off :



I'm thinking there's now shaping up the possibility that cop abuse, and BLM aren't going to be the top perception our nation will be concerned with, cuz civil war is now becoming a distinct possibility.

Let's hope not. Cuz then no lives will matter to each side, toward the opposite side.

It's time we all stop provoking and perpetuating a "Us v. Them" mentality. We're all a diverse family. It's so simple children can understand it :
Your post makes no sense. This is not a racial issue. Most of the police in these major cities are minorities. These rioting anarchists on the left hate America. The "us vs. them" is law-abiding citizens vs. lawless rioteers.

Which side are you on? Sounds to me like you believe that defunding the police will bring peace and security.
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Old 06-21-2020, 05:07 AM   #131
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And we can trust MA jr's opinion why?
You only trust opinions that match your own.
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Old 06-21-2020, 08:37 AM   #132
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And we can trust MA jr's opinion why?
Simply another black person who says this is folly - to provide a small bit of balance to the loud, shrill tone we are hearing most everywhere else.
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Old 06-21-2020, 05:44 PM   #133
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You only trust opinions that match your own.
You obviously haven't looked into the source. MA Jr. is not a good black guy. He's a bad apple.
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Old 06-21-2020, 08:16 PM   #134
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You obviously haven't looked into the source. MA Jr. is not a good black guy. He's a bad apple.
A "bad apple"? I don't know anything about him, but in a big respect, all of Adam is a "bad apple." What's your point in saying that? And what discredits him from claiming BLM is folly and will only bring about undesired things? Is he not a black man with a right to speak freely about this matter? He's just giving his perspective and what he's experienced. His voice matters, doesn't it? Is he any less credible than a Jesse Jackson or Rev. Sharpton (who are largely just self-serving IMHO)?

My point is he's another black voice that is raising some objection to what BLM seems to be so hell-bent to push in the public's face, without empirical evidence to backup the notion that there's widespread and systemic racism going on.
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Old 06-22-2020, 12:08 AM   #135
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A "bad apple"? I don't know anything about him, but in a big respect, all of Adam is a "bad apple." What's your point in saying that? And what discredits him from claiming BLM is folly and will only bring about undesired things? Is he not a black man with a right to speak freely about this matter? He's just giving his perspective and what he's experienced. His voice matters, doesn't it? Is he any less credible than a Jesse Jackson or Rev. Sharpton (who are largely just self-serving IMHO)?

My point is he's another black voice that is raising some objection to what BLM seems to be so hell-bent to push in the public's face, without empirical evidence to backup the notion that there's widespread and systemic racism going on.
His error is not expressing his opinion, but that of his father, that he couldn't really speak for. Muhammad Ali was a Muslim, and suffered for it. He might have been for BLM.
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Old 06-22-2020, 04:55 AM   #136
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His error is not expressing his opinion, but that of his father, that he couldn't really speak for. Muhammad Ali was a Muslim, and suffered for it. He might have been for BLM.
Like Hidin Joe Biden says, "he ain't black enough?"
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Old 06-22-2020, 09:56 AM   #137
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His error is not expressing his opinion, but that of his father, that he couldn't really speak for. Muhammad Ali was a Muslim, and suffered for it. He might have been for BLM.
Junior is Muslim too, and has evidently not had a cushy life (gets around $1000/mo. from his dad's estate). And in the article he said he's had some instances with cops, but that they had always treated him respectfully. He supports law enforcement (not a bad thing!). Again, just a black person's perspective based on his own experience.

So, bro Awareness, I've brought up several times about the apparent lack of empirical evidence to support the notion that there is widespread, systemic racism happening. We should be able to see at least some solid data to support this, right? That is, since we are being told it is such an overpowering, unbridled and manifestly apparent problem. I don't think you've specifically addressed this, have you?
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Old 06-22-2020, 01:05 PM   #138
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Junior is Muslim too, and has evidently not had a cushy life (gets around $1000/mo. from his dad's estate). And in the article he said he's had some instances with cops, but that they had always treated him respectfully. He supports law enforcement (not a bad thing!). Again, just a black person's perspective based on his own experience.

So, bro Awareness, I've brought up several times about the apparent lack of empirical evidence to support the notion that there is widespread, systemic racism happening. We should be able to see at least some solid data to support this, right? That is, since we are being told it is such an overpowering, unbridled and manifestly apparent problem. I don't think you've specifically addressed this, have you?
What we never hear about is how to behave when stopped by the Police. I knew some "tough" white guys years back who ran their mouth off and got roughed up by the police. They learned respect the hard way. And the cops never left a mark.

Here is a little secret for all you "tough guys" out there: Even the police tend to treat you better when you treat them with respect.

This whole thread defines stereotypical prejudice and generalizations -- one guy dies in Minneapolis and the media wants you to believe blacks are murdered every day. Let's be honest here. If I suckered a cop, stole his weapon, tried to shoot it at him, and things went bad for me, would anyone protest in my name? No? Didn't think so.
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Old 06-22-2020, 01:59 PM   #139
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What we never hear about is how to behave when stopped by the Police. I knew some "tough" white guys years back who ran their mouth off and got roughed up by the police. They learned respect the hard way. And the cops never left a mark.

Here is a little secret for all you "tough guys" out there: Even the police tend to treat you better when you treat them with respect.

This whole thread defines stereotypical prejudice and generalizations -- one guy dies in Minneapolis and the media wants you to believe blacks are murdered every day. Let's be honest here. If I suckered a cop, stole his weapon, tried to shoot it at him, and things went bad for me, would anyone protest in my name? No? Didn't think so.
That's it! Sensitivity Training for perps - I'm all for it!!

I'm taking notes on such ideas for a possible movie. So many ludicrous things happening the last few months that would make wonderful fodder for a film. Things like the TP shortage and people driving around with masks on for instance!

Speaking of film and such, last night we saw an old episode of Blue Bloods, the NYPD cop show, and on it they had protesters with signs that read, "We Can't Breathe!" My wife couldn't believe it and thought someone must have photo-shopped it in there! (it was from 2014 I think)
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Old 06-22-2020, 02:14 PM   #140
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Like Hidin Joe Biden says, "he ain't black enough?"
Hidin’ Biden, why didn’t I think of that, so obvious?
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Old 06-23-2020, 06:48 PM   #141
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Here's an interesting article from the Minneapolis police union :

Four weeks after George Floyd's death, an embattled police union finally speaks out

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/23/us/mi...tvu/index.html
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Old 06-24-2020, 07:12 AM   #142
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Junior is Muslim too, and has evidently not had a cushy life (gets around $1000/mo. from his dad's estate). And in the article he said he's had some instances with cops, but that they had always treated him respectfully. He supports law enforcement (not a bad thing!). Again, just a black person's perspective based on his own experience.

So, bro Awareness, I've brought up several times about the apparent lack of empirical evidence to support the notion that there is widespread, systemic racism happening. We should be able to see at least some solid data to support this, right? That is, since we are being told it is such an overpowering, unbridled and manifestly apparent problem. I don't think you've specifically addressed this, have you?
Bro StG, what you call Adamic nature I call human nature. Calling it Adam nature is not gender neutral ; not unless you call it Adam/Eve nature.

And then there's the dark nature, and the light nature ; in other words black and white. Dark/black, is bad, light/white, is good.

Turns out, there is prejudice even within black families ; as lighter skin kids are favored over darker skinned children. I asked a dark skinned black friend why that is, and he said because his parents believed their lighter skinned kids where more likely to do better in life ; of course they would, they're being favored.

So is there systemic racism?

REVEALED: 10 large Silicon Valley tech firms employ ZERO Black women and the net worth of the region's 10 richest moguls - all white men - is $248B, staggering inequality study finds

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...udy-finds.html

And then read the article I presented from the police union, post # 93606.

I guess it's Adamic nature that makes us so idealistic to think that racism does not exist in American society and culture ; and including within the culture of our police departments.

White skin good. Black skin bad.

Light good. Dark bad. It's in your Bible ... that supports slavery.

Thank God for black lives matter.
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Old 06-24-2020, 08:55 AM   #143
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Bro StG, what you call Adamic nature I call human nature. Calling it Adam nature is not gender neutral ; not unless you call it Adam/Eve nature.

And then there's the dark nature, and the light nature ; in other words black and white. Dark/black, is bad, light/white, is good.

Turns out, there is prejudice even within black families ; as lighter skin kids are favored over darker skinned children. I asked a dark skinned black friend why that is, and he said because his parents believed their lighter skinned kids where more likely to do better in life ; of course they would, they're being favored.

So is there systemic racism?

REVEALED: 10 large Silicon Valley tech firms employ ZERO Black women and the net worth of the region's 10 richest moguls - all white men - is $248B, staggering inequality study finds

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...udy-finds.html

And then read the article I presented from the police union, post # 93606.

I guess it's Adamic nature that makes us so idealistic to think that racism does not exist in American society and culture ; and including within the culture of our police departments.

White skin good. Black skin bad.

Light good. Dark bad. It's in your Bible ... that supports slavery.

Thank God for black lives matter.
Thank God he loves us all (even 4th quarter white males)!

Regarding the Minneapolis Police Union article - this just sounds like Adam . . . always deflecting blame somewhere else and never wanting to take full responsibility. Hallelujah we have a Savior who isn't like that - and we've been placed in Him!

Yes there is systemic racism in "Human Nature." The only place it isn't is in the one new man through Christ in us our hope of glory!

So what's the bottom-line (at least as far as I'm concerned)? Adam (aka human nature) is raging and the source he partook of (because of that woman God gave him) needs to be fully manifested before the Lord returns. This source God warned about, and all of its fruit, needs to be fully exposed. Then the awesome mercy, love and salvation in Christ will be fully revealed - and what a contrast, between the two sources, will be evident to all!
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Old 06-24-2020, 03:54 PM   #144
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Thank God he loves us all (even 4th quarter white males)!
And that's grand. We should be like Him. Except many evangelicals buy into David Barton, that America was founded by white Christians -- it wasn't, the red man was already here -- and should continue white today (white nationalism).

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Regarding the Minneapolis Police Union article - this just sounds like Adam . . . always deflecting blame somewhere else and never wanting to take full responsibility. Hallelujah we have a Savior who isn't like that - and we've been placed in Him!
Except it doesn't seem to be working. Adam nature still dominates.

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Yes there is systemic racism in "Human Nature." The only place it isn't is in the one new man through Christ in us our hope of glory!
Even in the LC I saw the Old Man still plenty at play. The Old Man is tribalistic. And tribalism dominated in the LC, that was suppose to be the New Man.

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So what's the bottom-line (at least as far as I'm concerned)? Adam (aka human nature) is raging and the source he partook of (because of that woman God gave him) needs to be fully manifested before the Lord returns. This source God warned about, and all of its fruit, needs to be fully exposed. Then the awesome mercy, love and salvation in Christ will be fully revealed - and what a contrast, between the two sources, will be evident to all!
Then I doubt Jesus will ever return.
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Old 06-24-2020, 06:27 PM   #145
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And that's grand. We should be like Him. Except many evangelicals buy into David Barton, that America was founded by white Christians -- it wasn't, the red man was already here -- and should continue white today (white nationalism).

Except it doesn't seem to be working. Adam nature still dominates.

Even in the LC I saw the Old Man still plenty at play. The Old Man is tribalistic. And tribalism dominated in the LC, that was suppose to be the New Man.

Then I doubt Jesus will ever return.
That field is littered with rabbit holes.
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Old 06-25-2020, 07:00 AM   #146
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That field is littered with rabbit holes.
Indeed. Thanks for the heads up. I'm trying to avoid them. I'm not following Alice.
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Old 06-25-2020, 07:14 AM   #147
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StG, you've presented data that proves cops don't kill blacks more than whites. My question concerning the data is, does it take into consideration the population differences.

Whites make up a little over 75%. Blacks make up a little over 13%. So if cops kill the same amount of whites and blacks, then the percentage means cops kill more blacks per capita than whites.
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Old 06-25-2020, 11:35 AM   #148
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StG, you've presented data that proves cops don't kill blacks more than whites. My question concerning the data is, does it take into consideration the population differences.

Whites make up a little over 75%. Blacks make up a little over 13%. So if cops kill the same amount of whites and blacks, then the percentage means cops kill more blacks per capita than whites.
Good question, and the answer is yes, that study does take those things into account. It was done by five researchers from Michigan State U. If you go back and read the study and/or its synopsis, that is what I think it says clearly (see posts 1 & 2 of this thread).

This was not a fly-by-night study and it appeared in the National Academy of Sciences publication last year, and was peer reviewed. On account of some peer questions that were brought up they did amend a small part of their conclusion's wording, but the overall conclusion remained.

Listen, I am not saying there isn't police racism and racist acts, or that there is no evince of systemic racism that is widespread in many police departments. What I am saying is there does not appear to be the well-research empirical data studies showing that this is indeed the case. If it was as big a problem as we're being told, shouldn't this data be, at least, fairly apparent and available?

To answer my own question, no empirical data research has been made public which demonstrates widespread systemic racism in police departments - at least to my knowledge.

The data I've seen so far that tries to demonstrate systemic racism is cherry-picked from this source and that source, without telling the complete story. If you know of another peer reviewed research study on the subject that clearly shows systemic racism, please let me know - I am most open to see it! (I am serious, because it is possible such a definitive study is out there and I'm just ignorant of its existence . . .)

On another note (and this sort of addresses you earlier response in #144), we had awesome fellowship in the Thursday brother's breakfast this morning about NT writings concerning end times (Jude, 2nd Timothy & 2nd Peter). The list of things put forth in these epistles, concerning how people will be in the end times, really pegs what we see out there now. Adam & the bad tree are coming into full bloom! But we, as Christians with Christ in us, have a choice - we can choose to put off the old man with all his corruption, and put on the new man. If we don't put off the old man, we are living the lie of the old man, and are lying to one another.

It also occurs to me that one of the key things in these lists of Adamic characteristics is unforgiveness (2 Tim 3:2) - this is rampant right now as everyone is accusing everyone else it seems! Oh may we be looking to Him as our source, our rest, our peace and abundant supply in these times (as the apostles have exhorted us to do)!
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Old 06-25-2020, 04:59 PM   #149
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StG, you've presented data that proves cops don't kill blacks more than whites. My question concerning the data is, does it take into consideration the population differences.

Whites make up a little over 75%. Blacks make up a little over 13%. So if cops kill the same amount of whites and blacks, then the percentage means cops kill more blacks per capita than whites.
Whites are barely over 50% of the population, when we consider all the minorities and the illegal aliens among the population.

Remember I am not "white," I am a northern Euro-American mutt.

Why is it that young black males -- 4% of our population -- commit 54% of our murders?

And nobody cares!!!
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Old 06-25-2020, 09:00 PM   #150
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Good question, and the answer is yes, that study does take those things into account. It was done by five researchers from Michigan State U. If you go back and read the study and/or its synopsis, that is what I think it says clearly (see posts 1 & 2 of this thread).

This was not a fly-by-night study and it appeared in the National Academy of Sciences publication last year, and was peer reviewed. On account of some peer questions that were brought up they did amend a small part of their conclusion's wording, but the overall conclusion remained.

Listen, I am not saying there isn't police racism and racist acts, or that there is no evince of systemic racism that is widespread in many police departments. What I am saying is there does not appear to be the well-research empirical data studies showing that this is indeed the case. If it was as big a problem as we're being told, shouldn't this data be, at least, fairly apparent and available?

To answer my own question, no empirical data research has been made public which demonstrates widespread systemic racism in police departments - at least to my knowledge.
Does the study research localities? Take Ferguson, Missouri for example. Back in 2014 a white cop killed Michael Brown Jr., an 18-year-old black man. Protesters exploded. In the end Ferguson was found to be covered up with racist cops. And I understand the problem hasn't been fixed 6 yrs later. So I guess the nation wide data levels that out.

Okay, onto your second matter. Thanks for your through presentation on the data.

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On another note (and this sort of addresses you earlier response in #144), we had awesome fellowship in the Thursday brother's breakfast this morning about NT writings concerning end times (Jude, 2nd Timothy & 2nd Peter). The list of things put forth in these epistles, concerning how people will be in the end times, really pegs what we see out there now.
I think the days of Hitler better fits.
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Adam & the bad tree are coming into full bloom! But we, as Christians with Christ in us, have a choice - we can choose to put off the old man with all his corruption, and put on the new man.
I wish it was that easy. I've not ever seen that really happen, sorry to say.
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If we don't put off the old man, we are living the lie of the old man, and are lying to one another.
What I've seen, even in the local church, is that those that claim to put off the old man, and that claim to put on the new man, turns out to be not that much different than nonbelievers, are lying, except for going to meetings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StG
It also occurs to me that one of the key things in these lists of Adamic characteristics is unforgiveness (2 Tim 3:2) - this is rampant right now as everyone is accusing everyone else it seems! Oh may we be looking to Him as our source, our rest, our peace and abundant supply in these times (as the apostles have exhorted us to do)!
If only we could confidently get at what the apostles exhorted. We can with confidence get at the apostle Paul, the founder of what became known as Christianity, by proselytizing the gentiles. But where do we hear from all 12 of the disciples?

But if you think the return of Jesus depends upon us, and how we arrange things here on earth, you're thinking like the Cargo Cult's. You seem to be a learned man. Look 'em up. In a nutshell, they, primitives, if we can call them that, believed if they did everything just right, the gods would deliver the cargo to them. They, the gods, didn't. We, American troops stationed on their island during the war, did.

In short, it's completely up to the more than capable hands of God. Thank God. Cuz if it depends on us fallen critters, it will fail every time. Rest in grace, and watch and pray.

Blessings brother.
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Old 06-26-2020, 05:44 AM   #151
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Does the study research localities? Take Ferguson, Missouri for example. Back in 2014 a white cop killed Michael Brown Jr., an 18-year-old black man. Protesters exploded. In the end Ferguson was found to be covered up with racist cops. And I understand the problem hasn't been fixed 6 yrs later. So I guess the nation wide data levels that out.
The Ferguson riots were based on a hoax. "Hands up. Don't Shoot." Never happened. That's what all the eye-witnesses said, but the media perpetuated a hoax.

The claims of racism in Ferguson are lies. The Obama / Holder DOJ / FBI investigated everything ... Thoroughly ... And found nothing.

Awareness, you and half the country have been duped by the media. No statistics support your claims.

Same thing with Trayvon Martin. Repeat in Baltimore. The Obama / Holder / Sharpton admin gave us nothing good, just race riots.
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Old 06-26-2020, 07:43 AM   #152
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The Ferguson riots were based on a hoax. "Hands up. Don't Shoot." Never happened. That's what all the eye-witnesses said, but the media perpetuated a hoax.

The claims of racism in Ferguson are lies. The Obama / Holder DOJ / FBI investigated everything ... Thoroughly ... And found nothing.

Awareness, you and half the country have been duped by the media. No statistics support your claims.

Same thing with Trayvon Martin. Repeat in Baltimore. The Obama / Holder / Sharpton admin gave us nothing good, just race riots.
My son lives in Missouri, not far from Ferguson. My info comes mostly from him. Where's your superior info come from, Mooooooslim Obama hating, God?
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Old 06-26-2020, 11:14 AM   #153
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BLM/Antifa Violence Is Prelude for November

The left is going to riot in November no matter who wins the presidency. Leftists have established by precedent the premise that "mostly peaceful" rioting, arson, assault, and rampant property destruction are not only acceptable, but necessary in order to purge our nation of imagined original sin.

George Floyd was merely a stroke of luck for the left; if it were not for his murder, they would have needed to conjure up another excuse for the studied and deliberate anarchy we are experiencing today.
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Old 06-26-2020, 11:16 AM   #154
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My son lives in Missouri, not far from Ferguson. My info comes mostly from him. Where's your superior info come from, Mooooooslim Obama hating, God?
The News. Real journalism. Honest factual reporting.

Just not your Leftist brainwashing propaganda.


Btw, did you read what came out the other day? Obama himself and Hidin Biden directed General Flynn's Frame Job.

Strzok Notes Reveal Obama Directed Flynn Investigation, Biden Raised Logan Act Violation
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Old 06-26-2020, 11:18 AM   #155
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Please see my responses in blue.
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So I guess the nation wide data levels that out. Probably true. The point is widespread, systemic racism should show up in national data. doesn't mean there aren't pockets of it.

I think the days of Hitler better fits. I think it's all a precursor to what's coming. We likely ain't seen nothing yet!

I wish it was that easy. I've not ever seen that really happen, sorry to say. Not sure how to respond here. It's all part of the unseen world of faith, bro.

What I've seen, even in the local church, is that those that claim to put off the old man, and that claim to put on the new man, turns out to be not that much different than nonbelievers, are lying, except for going to meetings. Sorry that's has been your experience. Look, is there much difference these days between how worldly ones look and Christians? No, at least not in America. The American church is generally probably like the one in Corinth - all sorts of ungodly things abound. Why? The flesh is being manifested.


If only we could confidently get at what the apostles exhorted. We can with confidence get at the apostle Paul, the founder of what became known as Christianity, by proselytizing the gentiles. But where do we hear from all 12 of the disciples? Not sure what you're trying to say here . . .

But if you think the return of Jesus depends upon us, and how we arrange things here on earth, you're thinking like the Cargo Cult's. You seem to be a learned man. Look 'em up. In a nutshell, they, primitives, if we can call them that, believed if they did everything just right, the gods would deliver the cargo to them. They, the gods, didn't. We, American troops stationed on their island during the war, did. Yes, have heard of the Cargo Cult before (I think from someone on this forum - maybe you). I don't think I was conveying anything regarding "the return of Jesus depends on us," was I? However, there is that verse in 2 Peter 3:12 - "Looking for and hastening the coming day of God." And Jesus did say only the Father knows the specific time. But Christ will return for His bride - when will she be ready for Him? (Have you ever waiting for your wife to get herself all made up . . . ? )

In short, it's completely up to the more than capable hands of God. Thank God. Cuz if it depends on us fallen critters, it will fail every time. Rest in grace, and watch and pray. AMEN!

Blessings brother.
And blessings to you - the Lord IS with your spirit, grace IS with you!
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Old 06-26-2020, 04:46 PM   #156
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WOW!

Minneapolis city council votes 12-0 to abolish its police department after death of George Floyd and will replace it with a 'department of community safety and violence prevention'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ce-motion.html
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Old 06-26-2020, 05:20 PM   #157
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WOW!

Minneapolis city council votes 12-0 to abolish its police department after death of George Floyd and will replace it with a 'department of community safety and violence prevention'
I heard that they proposed counseling sessions between victims and perpetrators.

I wondered how the heck they would ever catch the perpetrators?

They already practiced having no police in the new country of CHOP, formerly known as CHAZ. Several people got shot, but the CHOPistani warlords would not let the police into their newly formed country. CHOPistani residents are being terrorized by roving gangs at war with each other.
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Old 06-26-2020, 07:27 PM   #158
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The News. Real journalism. Honest factual reporting.
That does not exist. All news sources are biased. It is you that are being brainwashed.

You remind me of one of my cousins, that announced at a family dinner table that Fox news is the only one that tells the truth, and all other news outlets lie.

He's the one that said God is judging America, because America is not keeping Gods law, according to the curse of Ham, and keeping blacks as slaves.

Should I consider you as in his camp?

And knock it off with your hateful politics.
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Old 06-27-2020, 04:02 AM   #159
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That does not exist. All news sources are biased. It is you that are being brainwashed.

You remind me of one of my cousins, that announced at a family dinner table that Fox news is the only one that tells the truth, and all other news outlets lie.

He's the one that said God is judging America, because America is not keeping Gods law, according to the curse of Ham, and keeping blacks as slaves.

Should I consider you as in his camp?

And knock it off will your hateful politics.
You got triggered by honest news? You reacted like a snowflake, bro. You really owe it to yourself to consider whether the "enemy" of fake news just might have some truth on their side.

You apparently are stuck in binary mode. A prisoner of 2 opinions. One side being fake, and the other being your cousin. (If you are portraying him honestly. ) Neither are good choices. Both are very bad extremes. These are definitely hateful politics, as you said.
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Old 06-27-2020, 08:13 AM   #160
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

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That does not exist. All news sources are biased. It is you that are being brainwashed.

You remind me of one of my cousins, that announced at a family dinner table that Fox news is the only one that tells the truth, and all other news outlets lie.

He's the one that said God is judging America, because America is not keeping Gods law, according to the curse of Ham, and keeping blacks as slaves.

Should I consider you as in his camp?

And knock it off will your hateful politics.
What Adam does is point the finger at another and say: "Yer the big hypocrite!" When I tell my friends on the left that the right is being hypocritical, they're in full and enthusiastic agreement. But when I point out that the left is also guilty of the same thing, the head nodding slows way down. Same thing with my friends on the right. What I then usually hear (from either side) is, "Well yeah, but they're guilty of it much, much more!"

And I don't buy into the "God is judging America and the world" thing (like your cousin) anymore, because either Christ took all man's condemnation on the cross or He didn't. I think when God's judgement comes, we won't have any question about that!
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Old 06-27-2020, 08:38 AM   #161
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

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And I don't buy into the "God is judging America and the world" thing (like your cousin) anymore, because either Christ took all man's condemnation on the cross or He didn't. I think when God's judgement comes, we won't have any question about that!
That drives me crazy too. Many so-called prophets, using OT scripture taken out of context, love to predict God's judgment on America.

My answer is simple. Why would God judge this country, when so many of His children are here praying for their nation? If God really was as spiteful as they think, then God would have wiped out every muslam and communist country long ago.
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Old 06-27-2020, 09:25 AM   #162
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That drives me crazy too. Many so-called prophets, using OT scripture taken out of context, love to predict God's judgment on America.

My answer is simple. Why would God judge this country, when so many of His children are here praying for their nation? If God really was as spiteful as they think, then God would have wiped out every muslam and communist country long ago.
Could it be that God loves Muslims and communists? In the OT he often used enemy nations to judge the unfaithful.

He might even be using BLM to judge America right now and today.
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Old 06-27-2020, 09:37 AM   #163
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

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Could it be that God loves Muslims and communists? In the OT he often used enemy nations to judge the unfaithful.

He might even be using BLM to judge America right now and today.
Yes, God loves Adam no matter where he has strayed - into being Muslims & Communists & Democrats & Republicans and you name it!

God uses everything, but right now I don't think He is judging (as per me and Ohio's earlier posts today). Therefore, He can certainly use BLM for good, but I don't think it's for judgement - He put that on His Son!
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Old 06-27-2020, 10:05 AM   #164
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Could it be that God loves Muslims and communists? In the OT he often used enemy nations to judge the unfaithful.

He might even be using BLM to judge America right now and today.
Why would God use BLM to judge America for what the Democrats have done to the blacks for hundreds of years? That's like judging the Jews for what the high priests did to Jesus 2,000 years ago.

Many blacks and BLM supporters are now horrified by the anarchy taking place. Since MLK was homophobic, they expect his statues will be torn down too. When it comes to antifa anarchy, everything must be torn down.

Yes, God did use the nations to judge unfaithful and idolatrous Israel, and then judged those same nations. The story of the overnight destruction of Babylon (the moments right before were recorded by Daniel -- i.e. the "writing on the wall" story) was really incredible.

Of course God loves all men, including Muslims and communists, and one day we will be surprised to know how many of them secretly believed in the Lord while living in those oppressive regimes. China, which was once open to the gospel, has now dramatically changed under their dictator Xi.
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Old 06-27-2020, 10:09 AM   #165
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

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Yes, God loves Adam no matter where he has strayed - into being Muslims & Communists & Democrats & Republicans and you name it!

God uses everything, but right now I don't think He is judging (as per me and Ohio's earlier posts today). Therefore, He can certainly use BLM for good, but I don't think it's for judgement - He put that on His Son!
God does use "judgment" to humble mankind, with the intention to draw them to His Son. I'm sure you have seen this happen to those around you. Often He begins with His own house. Revelations makes it clear that some will never repent, and will prefer God's wrath to repentance and salvation. It's their choice. Free will does not always mean freedom.
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Old 06-27-2020, 10:14 AM   #166
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

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God does use "judgment" to humble mankind, with the intention to draw them to His Son. I'm sure you have seen this happen to those around you. Often He begins with His own house. Revelations makes it clear that some will never repent, and will prefer God's wrath to repentance and salvation. It's their choice. Free will does not always mean freedom.
Yes, certainly, but I'm wondering - is "judgment" the best word for that? Perhaps "dealing" or "shepherding" would be more accurate. Watayathimk?
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Old 06-27-2020, 10:17 AM   #167
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

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Yes, certainly, but I'm wondering - is "judgment" the best word for that? Perhaps "dealing" or "shepherding" would be more accurate. Watayathink?
Well ... Peter uses that word. John speaks of "bowls of wrath."

Perhaps a Greek word study would help. Or maybe our thinking needs to change.
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Old 06-27-2020, 11:00 AM   #168
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

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Well ... Peter uses that word. John speaks of "bowls of wrath."

Perhaps a Greek word study would help. Or maybe our thinking needs to change.
The transliteration of that word in 1 Peter 4:17 is "krima" (Strongs G2917) which can be translated as judgement, verdict, condemnation or decision. I think maybe to be righteous, then God must judge or discipline His own household first. It would be like someone telling a neighbor that their kids shouldn't be throwing rocks through windows when his kids are doing the same thing. As believers, we freely accept His discipline now (or should) for our betterment.

This short article brings up Hebrews 12 with this verse, which talks about disciplining those He accepts as sons: What does 1 Peter 4:17 mean?
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Old 06-27-2020, 04:16 PM   #169
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

I just took a walk and saw 2 BLM signs on my street. Kind of burns me up because the sign is so racist and hypocritical. Do non-black lives matter? Do the black unborn lives matter? No? I didn't think so!

I'd like to put up a sign, "All lives matter." Or perhaps, "All Lives Matter to the Lord Jesus." The only reason I won't is because of the violent backlash. My signs would justify their violence against me.

Even though I live in a suburb that leans conservative, none of my neighbors ever put up a Trump sign, and for the same reason. This is how the violent Left silences free speech.
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Old 06-27-2020, 04:24 PM   #170
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No. I would take a knee. Like Trump should have.
The "kneelers" have become the biggest cult in America.

BLM are demanding everyone to bow down to their demands.

I'm so glad one guy on this forum is here thinking for this cult, because none of them are.
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Old 06-27-2020, 04:38 PM   #171
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My answer is simple. Why would God judge this country, when so many of His children are here praying for their nation? If God really was as spiteful as they think, then God would have wiped out every muslam and communist country long ago.
God might not be that involved. He may be just letting everything run its course without Him. Does God always have to micromanage everything?
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Old 06-27-2020, 05:50 PM   #172
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

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God might not be that involved. He may be just letting everything run its course without Him. Does God always have to micromanage everything?
Well, yeah - Romans 8:28!
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Old 06-27-2020, 09:56 PM   #173
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Well, yeah - Romans 8:28!
Cute StG. And a great verse. But "all things" there apply to those that love God, not to all things otherwise ... IMHO
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Old 06-28-2020, 09:44 AM   #174
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

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Cute StG. And a great verse. But "all things" there apply to those that love God, not to all things otherwise ... IMHO
Well, you and me love God, right? So that's all that's important!
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Old 06-28-2020, 11:01 AM   #175
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God might not be that involved. He may be just letting everything run its course without Him. Does God always have to micromanage everything?
He provides your next heartbeat and give you life. Is that too much micromanagement for you?
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Old 06-28-2020, 03:21 PM   #176
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He provides your next heartbeat and give you life. Is that too much micromanagement for you?
A brother in his 30's at a Church of Christ was by every sign as healthy as a horse. He farmed, hunted, and play sports with his kids. No problem. But a examination revealed he had a bad heart valve. So a valve replacement was scheduled at Vanderbilt University hospital in Nashville.

The Sunday before his operation we all in Sunday School class formed a circle and prayed that the operation would go well. And, he was well known to all the Church's of Christ in the area and around 1500 members were praying for him.

In the end, he walked into the hospital with no symptoms, and came out with a toe tag. Our pastor held the funeral services, along with the pastor of the largest Church of Christ in the state of Kentucky. Thousands attended.

Afterward, our preacher fell into a depression. God had failed the brother, his family, the preachers, and all that was praying for him.

Is that God micromanaging? Should we blame Him for failing to do His job?
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Old 06-28-2020, 04:01 PM   #177
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

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A brother in his 30's at a Church of Christ was by every sign as healthy as a horse. He farmed, hunted, and play sports with his kids. No problem. But a examination revealed he had a bad heart valve. So a valve replacement was scheduled at Vanderbilt University hospital in Nashville.

The Sunday before his operation we all in Sunday School class formed a circle and prayed that the operation would go well. And, he was well known to all the Church's of Christ in the area and around 1500 members were praying for him.

In the end, he walked into the hospital with no symptoms, and came out with a toe tag. Our pastor held the funeral services, along with the pastor of the largest Church of Christ in the state of Kentucky. Thousands attended.

Afterward, our preacher fell into a depression. God had failed the brother, his family, the preachers, and all that was praying for him.

Is that God micromanaging? Should we blame Him for failing to do His job?
Sad story. Of course, the kicker is that He delegated authority on this earth to man, then man gave it away to the devil. So now humans are swimming in the devil's cesspool. God, delegating free will to us, also respects that free will, yet He has an overwhelmingly grand, wonderful and loving purpose to fulfill on our behalf. This reminds me a little how federal, state & local governmental authorities all interact/don't interact well with each other . . . pretty hard to figure out oftentimes!

So this life is an "interesting" situation - we have to trust He knows what He is doing and is quite capable of doing it!
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Old 06-28-2020, 04:33 PM   #178
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

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A brother in his 30's at a Church of Christ was by every sign as healthy as a horse. He farmed, hunted, and play sports with his kids. No problem. But a examination revealed he had a bad heart valve. So a valve replacement was scheduled at Vanderbilt University hospital in Nashville.

The Sunday before his operation we all in Sunday School class formed a circle and prayed that the operation would go well. And, he was well known to all the Church's of Christ in the area and around 1500 members were praying for him.

In the end, he walked into the hospital with no symptoms, and came out with a toe tag. Our pastor held the funeral services, along with the pastor of the largest Church of Christ in the state of Kentucky. Thousands attended.

Afterward, our preacher fell into a depression. God had failed the brother, his family, the preachers, and all that was praying for him.

Is that God micromanaging? Should we blame Him for failing to do His job?
Just another story about how God always get the blame for anything that is sad or tragic, but He never gets thanked ...

Being God must be the most miserable existence in the universe.
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Old 06-28-2020, 08:12 PM   #179
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Just another story about how God always get the blame for anything that is sad or tragic, but He never gets thanked ...

Being God must be the most miserable existence in the universe.
I don't know. I go around all day thanking him .. even when just turning the water on ... but all kinds of little things ... like Brother Lawrence.
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Old 06-28-2020, 09:24 PM   #180
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Default Re: STUDY: White Police Officers NOT more likely to Kill Minorities

Is America becoming a police state?

https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-ri...n-police-state
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Old 06-28-2020, 09:39 PM   #181
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Is America becoming a police state?

https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-ri...n-police-state
Answer is no. America is becoming lawless chaos, like the movie "Purge" every night of the week.
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Old 06-29-2020, 08:29 AM