Open Letter to Saints in The Local Churches - Andrea McArdle

UntoHim · 07-29-2019, 08:19 AM

Dear saints of the local churches,

After listening to the special fellowship from this past semi annual training (July 2019), I am compelled to respond. During this message, Chris Wilde spoke about ‘covering the brothers’ and he claimed that “if any failure crosses the line and endangers children or breaks a law, they will bring the full authority of the law”. He assures the saints that is being done and has been done. But in my own experience while meeting in Houston Texas that is not the case. I was asked to cover up a sexual abuse at the Local Church in Houston Texas.

While meeting with the Church in Houston I was close to a 'new one' off the college campus work. He eagerly came to the meetings and was quickly accepted into our tight knit group of young people. He told me many times about a middle-aged brother who was his prayer and morning revival partner. About a year after the young brother entered the Church in Houston, he came to me and another college age brother one Sunday night visibly distraught. After asking him what was the matter, he broke down and told us that the night before he woke up to find his prayer partner, the older ‘brother’ sexually assaulting him. The details of that assault are not mine to tell, but the image of him curled up in the doorway weeping is seared into my memory.

I told him to go to the elders. Being raised in the church, I had full confidence that the elders would know how to take care of the situation. I’m ashamed now that my first thought had not been to contact the police. But I knew in a very deep and perhaps subconscious way that the church handled all matters internally.

After the next Lord's table meeting I was approached by an elder, Alan Bayes, with another elder standing near. Alan Bayes told me that what happened to that young brother was terrible, and that they handled the situation by confronting the perpetrator and telling him he was no longer allowed in Young Peoples’ Meetings. I was told that he and the other elder were taking care of this matter. (I will leave out his name because he and I had no direct contact about this incident.)

I didn’t question if they were doing anything wrong by not contacting the police. Alan explained to me why it was very important not to ever tell anyone about this, and asked me to “cover the brother.” I nodded my head in agreement, and have kept that promise until now. Growing up in “The Lord’s Recovery” I had heard the term 'covering the brothers' many times and knew it was essential for keeping the saints protected, and for not letting “germs” spread.

The elders did not call the police and they did not recommend therapy of any kind. Growing up in the Local Churches, we were taught that mental health professionals are in the “wrong realm” and that they would not understand those of us who have the “high truths.” This mistrust of psychiatry was verbally conveyed in meetings by leading brothers over the years, and is written in the books of ‘The Ministry.’ In a similar way that the victim was groomed by his “prayer partner” for sexual abuse, I had been groomed by the Local Churches to be complicit in covering up a perpertrator’s action.

I moved away from Houston soon after this event, and the brother who was assaulted quit meeting with The Church. A couple of years later, I found out that the perpetrator was back in the Young Peoples’ Meetings, apparently his removal never being enforced to begin with. The perpetrator is still meeting today.

In the years since this incident I’ve learned about rape culture, sexual grooming, and the dangers of keeping silent. I realize now how damaging and perpetuating the concept of 'covering the brothers' is. It is because of this concept that predators within churches are able to continue to abuse children and young people for years. The Church should be a place where members are intrinsically valued. One would think that the safety of all members would be a priority.

By advocating that we cover the brothers, and refusing to report alleged crimes, elders have allowed physical, sexual, emotional, and mental trauma to fester in The Local Churches. Victims of abuse who meet with the Lord’s Recovery, become caught in a catch-22. We’ve all been told that “building the body” is the only way to “overcome” and “get the kingdom reward.” However, victims know that each time they go to a meeting, they might see their abuser. Not only will this prevent healing from the initial attack, this can create additional traumas that may lead to PTSD, anxiety, depression etc.

The perpetrator in The Church in Houston has maintained access to countless children and young people. He may have continued to abuse. I have to live with these facts. The way this situation was handled should be deeply distressing to all of us. And it’s not unique. Being asked to cover up a sexual assault helped me to see the ugly facts behind the “church-life.”

I want to be clear; my response, contrary to what was claimed in the aforementioned meeting as well as in message 8 from Ron Kangas, is not out of a rebellion from God or a desire to rebel against any “deputy authority.” I have not been meeting with the local churches since 2009 and have found great peace out of the “Lord’s Recovery.” This is not rebellion, rather a call to action. It matters to me that this community, with so many I love in it, is a safe place.

My call to elders and leading brothers is to stop deflecting from your responsibility. Elders not only have a responsibility to keep the rest of the body safe from predators, they also have a responsibility to the rest of society. When abuse goes unreported to the police, predators are able to repeat the abuse over and over again without a criminal record.

Eventually, like in my situation, The Church is more than likely to lose the abused and anyone asked to cover it up, and will hold on to the abuser. Is this what you want, dear members of the body? Is there no remorse in the elders in Houston for choosing a sexual predator over protecting us?

Elders and co-workers nation-wide need to admit that there is a lack of policies and protections. They should admit that they have helped to foster a culture of abuse. Are church leaders willing to communicate transparently with law enforcement going forward? Will they partner with and listen to specialists to put forward a cohesive policy that prevents continued abuse in the church, especially against young people and children? Are leaders ready to believe survivors? Most importantly, are the elders ready to end the practice of 'covering the brothers'? ‘Covering the brothers’ is tantamount to hiding abuse, and this unhealthy practice leaves survivors to fend for themselves. The church life is not like Disneyland, abuse happens everywhere. My concern though, is how it is handled.

This situation was mishandled. But events like this are not uncommon. I urge you, dear reader, to ask around. I’ve talked with other church kids and heard dozens of unique instances of serious abuse, along with cover-ups and leadership inaction. Some of these events are ongoing and very recent. Abuse happens everywhere, but environments with unequal power dynamics are especially prone to fostering abusive behavior.

Some might try to deflect responsibility by arguing that The Local Churches are an “Organism and not an Organization.” In fact The Church is an organization. Each locality is a 501(c)(3) not for profit organization. Any organization that claims millions of members (as they did in the Special Fellowship), should have a procedure in place for abuse for every locality follow. Church Life standards and practices should be at least as rigorous as the rest of society. Even the Catholic Church has new laws to keep abuse allegations and their handling transparent. If The Local Church claims that it is “God’s move on the earth today” it can do the same.

I do not name Alan Bayes in Houston because he is a terrible person. Quite the contrary, I have been helped by him numerous times and have admiration and respect for him in many ways. However, the elders and co-working brothers have a responsibility to their localities. All of the elders, co-workers and leading brothers who know of abuse and covered it up need to be held accountable. A new standard operating procedure for dealing with current and future cases must be adopted.

I encourage any member of the Local Churches who survived abuse of any kind, or who have seen such coverups to speak out, even if you do so anonymously. Severe transgressions are being “covered” up. Abuse happens between “serving ones” and young people; between parents and children; and between husbands and wives. Elders in the Local Churches can and must do something to protect those who are vulnerable.

I personally know the pain of being in danger. In another instance, I told an elder and he did nothing about my plea for help. I want all victims to know that I see you, and that your story matters. If you would like to make your story public, please feel free to contact me if you need help. My heart is for you and you are worthy. Together, and even if you choose to remain anonymous, we will advocate for much needed changes and transparency.

Ephesians 5:11
Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them

1 Tim 5:20
But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning.

The truth will set me free,
Andrea McArdle
andrea.mcardle@gmail.com

Meetings I reference:
Special fellowship mtg:
http://livingtohim.com/2019/07/speci...nual-training/

Message 8 Ron Kangas
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l1MMmy...ZHrWTseb8KRpq9

Jo's letter:
http://bit.ly/JoFBPostLeavingRecovery

UntoHim · 08-23-2019, 06:38 AM

Andrea recently added this to her Open Letter:
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Edit: the Church in Houston has held a corporate prayer meeting (8.7.19) over this letter in which they tell the Saints I am lying, gossiping and spreading rumors. Joe Davis who gave the message also said that because I wrote this letter I will not be an overcomer.

You can listen to that message here:
http://www.churchinhouston.org/category/audio/

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Ohio · 08-23-2019, 06:54 AM

And because of the way Joe Davis lies about people and hides evil, he will not be an overcomer!

But perhaps I am wrong. Isn't there a verse in Revelations that says, "He who overcomes by publicly lying about God's people and protecting the ministry of Lee will escape the judgment seat of Christ."

Help me out here folks. Where's that verse at?

Raptor · 08-23-2019, 07:12 AM

Christ is uniquely and exclusively qualified to judge:
Acts 10:42 And He has charged us to proclaim to the people and solemnly testify that this is the One who was designated by God to be the Judge of the living and the dead.

It is the judgement seat of Christ.
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all be manifested before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done through the body according to what he has practiced, whether good or bad.

It is the Lord Himself who is the righteous Judge.
2 Timothy 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, with which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will recompense me in that day, and not only me but also all those who have loved His appearing.

He alone decides who will receive a reward.
Revelation 2&3. To him who overcomes, to him I will ....
Revelation 22:12 Behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me to render to each one as his work is.

ZNPaaneah · 08-23-2019, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Andrea recently added this to her Open Letter:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit: the Church in Houston has held a corporate prayer meeting (8.7.19) over this letter in which they tell the Saints I am lying, gossiping and spreading rumors. Joe Davis who gave the message also said that because I wrote this letter I will not be an overcomer.

You can listen to that message here:
http://www.churchinhouston.org/category/audio/

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-

1. He characterized this letter as "opposition" to what the Lord is doing. Said clearly that the report on the social media was "full of untruths". But said that they needed a response now that it is out there. His response was this:

"Gossiping -- nothing to do with the tree of life"

and then had everyone parrot him in saying "I do not want to listen to these things".

It was stunningly childish.

I then learned that the weekly prayer meeting in Houston was now a "once a month corporate prayer meeting" that was composed of what? This message. The message was the entire prayer meeting.

He then said that rumors are lies and dug up the story of how rumors were spread about Watchman Nee living with a woman when in fact it was his mother!

He then laughed like a lunatic and said "I am so happy that rumors are being spread, these are signs that the victory is ours."

Finally, "those who wrote these things rejected the church, they can't be an overcomer".

Stunning, jaw droppingly stunning. Has he never read 1 Corinthians where Paul writes about just this thing in condemning sexual immorality being tolerated in Corinth? What Paul can't be an overcomer because he rejected the church?

Seriously, still pushing the story about WN's mother? Please show me where WL ever said this in his published, black and white ministry where he might actually be held accountable for it.

Nell · 08-24-2019, 04:21 AM

I found this shocking series of articles in the Houston Chronicle regarding longstanding sexual abuse cover ups in the Southern Baptist Convention.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/loc...buse-of-faith/

Joe Davis is a former employee of the Chronicle.

Further, this was posted on Fox News this morning:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/churches-...-sex-offenders

Nell

ZNPaaneah · 08-24-2019, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nell

Further, this was posted on Fox News this morning:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/churches-...-sex-offenders

Nell

Did I misunderstand this letter? I was under the impression that the person alleged to have been molested was an adult, a college student, in the young people's meetings. Second, no one said the person accused of committing this act had a record as a sex offender. What exactly are you proposing leaders of a church to do? Also, a "prayer partner" is hardly a position of authority within the church.

Finally, the account given by the "victim" raises some questions. Like "what happened" and "what do you mean by groomed". I don't really see how any leader of the church could respond to accusations they didn't do everything within their power unless we know the answers to these questions.

Also, this matter of going to the police. If the victim is an adult you are going to have to get that person to go to the police. In the end, unless that person presses charges all you will get is a lawsuit of slander against you.

Nell · 08-24-2019, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Did I misunderstand this letter? I was under the impression that the person alleged to have been molested was an adult, a college student, in the young people's meetings. Second, no one said the person accused of committing this act had a record as a sex offender. What exactly are you proposing leaders of a church to do? Also, a "prayer partner" is hardly a position of authority within the church.

Finally, the account given by the "victim" raises some questions. Like "what happened" and "what do you mean by groomed". I don't really see how any leader of the church could respond to accusations they didn't do everything within their power unless we know the answers to these questions.

Also, this matter of going to the police. If the victim is an adult you are going to have to get that person to go to the police. In the end, unless that person presses charges all you will get is a lawsuit of slander against you.

I posted links of interest. I am not the author of these links. I made no proposals. I made no comments on these articles. Perhaps YOU should contact the author and ask any questions you may have. Perhaps YOU should refrain from pointing fingers and making assumptions where none exist.

The cover up of sexual abuse in churches is not unique to the Catholics or the Baptists.

Nell

Bubbles! · 08-29-2019, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Did I misunderstand this letter? I was under the impression that the person alleged to have been molested was an adult, a college student, in the young people's meetings. Second, no one said the person accused of committing this act had a record as a sex offender. What exactly are you proposing leaders of a church to do? Also, a "prayer partner" is hardly a position of authority within the church.

Finally, the account given by the "victim" raises some questions. Like "what happened" and "what do you mean by groomed". I don't really see how any leader of the church could respond to accusations they didn't do everything within their power unless we know the answers to these questions.

Also, this matter of going to the police. If the victim is an adult you are going to have to get that person to go to the police. In the end, unless that person presses charges all you will get is a lawsuit of slander against you.

Cudos to you ZNP, for exercising some common sense. We can't just scream and rant about things off the top of our heads, just because we have anger issues. An adult has to take responsibility for him/her self. Just because you don't like a certain group doesn't mean that you can bash all that you want.
I will add that if what allegedly happened to that young brother, happened to me, I would immediately go to the police, and bypass all of the ''covering'' stuff. I'd do everything in MY power ( not some elder's ) to put the perp in jail.
ZNP, exactly what finger pointing and accusing did you do, as alleged by Nell?

UntoHim · 08-29-2019, 08:24 PM

So my friend Bubbles,

Did you actually read the letter that Andrea wrote, or are you just screaming and ranting off of the top of your head?

If you read the letter (which I doubt you did in full), which part of the letter indicated that this brother had "anger issues"? Not a trick question Bubbles - please enlighten us about this brother's anger issues.

Bubbles, you are welcomed to dialogue and discuss. What you are not welcomed to do is condemn and attack the victim without cause or warrant, as is done in the Local Church of Witness Lee. Why is your first inclination to believe the attacker rather than the victim? I hope you realize that those days are OVER...not only in society in general, but maybe even in the Local Church of Witness Lee specifically. Maybe you need to do some pray-reading with Chris Wilde...He has said that these days are over as well. (praise God for this!)

Let me assure you, those days are absolutely, unequivocally OVER here on LocalChurchDiscussions! The attacker and the abuser no longer have the upper hand as they did in the Local Church of Witness Lee. The attacker and the abuser no longer have the benefit of the doubt. They have not earned the benefit of the doubt here in this venue. Quite the contrary, they are discredited and proven guilty until and unless some strong evidence comes forth to prove otherwise.

The victim rules and reigns here. "Let God be true, but every man a liar"
-

awareness · 08-30-2019, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nell

I found this shocking series of articles in the Houston Chronicle regarding longstanding sexual abuse cover ups in the Southern Baptist Convention.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/loc...buse-of-faith/

Joe Davis is a former employee of the Chronicle.

Further, this was posted on Fox News this morning:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/churches-...-sex-offenders

Nell

Great links Nell. Thanks. The sexual abuse is one thing -- as long as humans are involved it's gonna happen -- but the cover up is another.

Long ago, when I was a kid, I attended a very conservative Southern Baptist church here in Kentucky. When I moved back here I attended it again. But it was too conservative for my liking.

But my cousin has been in attendance for decades ; deacon, elder figure, only reader of Koine Greek, and such.

A few years ago he told me what happened at his church : The preacher got caught stealing from members, and more cats jumped out of the bag, so to speak : like rape of a single sister.

So what did the church do to this preacher? They sent him up the road with a letter of good recommendation.

Why? Because they didn't want to stain the reputation of the church. And they don't even have the Noah type doctrine of covering God's delegated anointed ... so no 'covering' doctrine.

But cover up they did. When called on the carpet the preacher's wife admitted that he was doing it at every church that hired him as a preacher. Now that preacher can go do it to another church.

I hate to be cyclical, but this is what we get, and can expect, as long as humans are involved. Human nature has a long, long, long -- going back into prehistory days even -- of being very stubborn, and impossible to eradicate.

But it doesn't help if abuse is covered up, and not reported to authorities.

Peter Debelak · 08-31-2019, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubbles!

Cudos to you ZNP, for exercising some common sense. We can't just scream and rant about things off the top of our heads, just because we have anger issues. An adult has to take responsibility for him/her self. Just because you don't like a certain group doesn't mean that you can bash all that you want.
I will add that if what allegedly happened to that young brother, happened to me, I would immediately go to the police, and bypass all of the ''covering'' stuff. I'd do everything in MY power ( not some elder's ) to put the perp in jail.
ZNP, exactly what finger pointing and accusing did you do, as alleged by Nell?

The presumption that “you know what you would do if the trauma happened to you” is an indication that you haven’t experienced very much trauma. And certainly not any of the kind described in the letter.

Your comment wreaks of lack of empathy and attention to the messiness of human experience.

We are talking about children. And when not talking about children, we are talking about people who are enmeshed in a very intense power dynamic.

Their identities have long been established by acceptance in the group. Whistle blowing or going to the authorities would absolutely undo that, and with it, your very identity.

Do you have any empathy for that being a possibility. And the tragic choice that young person has to face in that decision?

Where is your pause? To take something seriously and perhaps even put yourself in another’s shoes?

Peter Debelak · 08-31-2019, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Did I misunderstand this letter? I was under the impression that the person alleged to have been molested was an adult, a college student, in the young people's meetings. Second, no one said the person accused of committing this act had a record as a sex offender. What exactly are you proposing leaders of a church to do? Also, a "prayer partner" is hardly a position of authority within the church.

Finally, the account given by the "victim" raises some questions. Like "what happened" and "what do you mean by groomed". I don't really see how any leader of the church could respond to accusations they didn't do everything within their power unless we know the answers to these questions.

Also, this matter of going to the police. If the victim is an adult you are going to have to get that person to go to the police. In the end, unless that person presses charges all you will get is a lawsuit of slander against you.

The police should be involved.

There will be questions, like the ones you raised.

But are they even asked? The police ought to be a safeguard - not the only reason concerns are addressed.

Where is the internal reaction to such things where the first impulse isn’t to cover up and deflect?

That much should be clear from the letter, even as you still have valid questions.

UntoHim · 09-01-2019, 06:26 AM

Good points Peter.

Brothers and sisters, Andrea McArdle has not been the only sister to come out to expose what can only be called an epidemic of abuse in the Local Church of Witness Lee. It is bad enough when a culture of abuse is allowed to foster in any group, but when the first instinct of the leadership is to cover up the abuse, the victim inevitably suffers further abuse and attacking. In the case of the Local Church, many times the cover up is to protect the religious system created by Witness Lee, and continued by many of his followers. Anyone and everyone, no matter what their status is in the movement, is expendable. (except for Lee of course) The image of this little sect that they call "the Lord's Recovery" must be protected at any cost - even at the cost of the lives of the littlest of sheep. Our Lord's mandate to leave the ninety-nine to save the one lost is ignored and even despised. The little sheep is left to die, and the wolf is protected and allowed to attack again. How many times are we going to see this scenario play out in the Local Church and simply sit on our hands and keep silent?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Debelak in response to Bubbles

We are talking about children. And when not talking about children, we are talking about people who are enmeshed in a very intense power dynamic.
Their identities have long been established by acceptance in the group. Whistle blowing or going to the authorities would absolutely undo that, and with it, your very identity.

And when we are not talking about children, in many cases we are talking about sisters that have been abused by brothers who have been placed in a position of trust over them. This dynamic in the Local Church goes back to at least the 1970s with Phillip Lee's reign of terror in the LSM office. Now with the startling revelations of Dr. Lily Hsu in her book, we are now facing the reality that these kind of things have been happening from the beginning of the movement. Lord, have mercy.
-

Ohio · 09-01-2019, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UntoHim

In the case of the Local Church, many times the cover up is to protect the religious system created by Witness Lee, and continued by many of his followers. Anyone and everyone, no matter what their status is in the movement, is expendable. (except for Lee of course) The image of this little sect that they call "the Lord's Recovery" must be protected at any cost - even at the cost of the lives of the littlest of sheep. Our Lord's mandate to leave the ninety-nine to save the one lost is ignored and even despised. The little sheep is left to die, and the wolf is protected and allowed to attack again. How many times are we going to see this scenario play out in the Local Church and simply sit on our hands and keep silent?

And when we are not talking about children, in many cases we are talking about sisters that have been abused by brothers who have been placed in a position of trust over them. This dynamic in the Local Church goes back to at least the 1970s with Phillip Lee's reign of terror in the LSM office. Now with the startling revelations of Dr. Lily Hsu in her book, we are now facing the reality that these kind of things have been happening from the beginning of the movement. Lord, have mercy.
-

I cut my ties with LSM, and lost all respect for WL, when I learned what Witness Lee did to protect his own degenerate and profligate sons and simultaneously disgrace the reputations of those men of God who attempted to protect the victims of these brutish perps. I also cut ties with Titus Chu, who knew all the filthy facts of the behind-the-scenes-situations at LSM, only to reject righteousness and the plight of these victims in order to "take a stand" for WL, his so-called "spiritual father."

The audio recording of Joe Davis in Houston makes it abundantly clear that all of these cases of abuse are known by the Recovery leaders and readily dismissed as rumors. JD made it clear that they "have heard this all before" going back to Watchman's Nee excommunication by the church in Shanghai some 77 years ago.

Does anyone really believe that the elders in Shanghai, all appointed by Nee himself, would arbitrarily excommunicate him over some spurious false allegation that he was "living with his mother." To accept that well-worn tale of persecution proffered by Lee himself is to believe that the elders in the Recovery's largest church in China were dunces, simpletons, idiots, and fools at best. Would they not first ask for witnesses and some examination of facts as demanded by I Timothy 5.19-20? Yes, of course they would!

Yet these bogus stories and tales of old are still passed on to the saints at large in today's Recovery.

Gubei · 09-10-2019, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UntoHim

As Posted on GoogleDocs.Com

The elders did not call the police and they did not recommend therapy of any kind. Growing up in the Local Churches, we were taught that mental health professionals are in the “wrong realm” and that they would not understand those of us who have the “high truths.” This mistrust of psychiatry was verbally conveyed in meetings by leading brothers over the years, and is written in the books of ‘The Ministry.’ In a similar way that the victim was groomed by his “prayer partner” for sexual abuse, I had been groomed by the Local Churches to be complicit in covering up a perpertrator’s action.
Andrea McArdle
andrea.mcardle@gmail.com

Meetings I reference:
Special fellowship mtg:
http://livingtohim.com/2019/07/speci...nual-training/

Message 8 Ron Kangas
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l1MMmy...ZHrWTseb8KRpq9

Jo's letter:
http://bit.ly/JoFBPostLeavingRecovery

Recently, I coined a word "Body of Christ Totalitarianism", which only concerns corporate benefit at the expense of individual saints' basic rights. According to my experience, I believe the more individuality of saints are promoted in the right way, the more the body of Christ is built up.

Unfortunately, the LCers believe the more individual saints sacrifice themselves the more the body will be built up. Simply speaking, a wrong causation.

Raptor · 09-10-2019, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gubei

Recently, I coined a word "Body of Christ Totalitarianism", which only concerns corporate benefit at the expense of individual saints' basic rights. According to my experience, I believe the more individuality of saints are promoted in the right way, the more the body of Christ is built up.

Unfortunately, the LCers believe the more individual saints sacrifice themselves the more the body will be built up. Simply speaking, a wrong causation.

Ephesians 4:16 From Him the whole body is fitted and held together by every supporting ligament. And as each individual part does its work, the body grows and builds itself up in love.

Gubei · 09-10-2019, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor

Ephesians 4:16 From Him the whole body is fitted and held together by every supporting ligament. And as each individual part does its work, the body grows and builds itself up in love.

In principle this "Body of Christ totalitarianism" is very similar to Fascism, Nazism, and Tenno totalitarianism (in Japan). They thought their nations are superior to others (elitism, eugenics), took the measure of raging war with others (aggressiveness to other Christians).

Ohio · 09-11-2019, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gubei

Recently, I coined a word "Body of Christ Totalitarianism", which only concerns corporate benefit at the expense of individual saints' basic rights. According to my experience, I believe the more individuality of saints are promoted in the right way, the more the body of Christ is built up.

Unfortunately, the LCers believe the more individual saints sacrifice themselves the more the body will be built up. Simply speaking, a wrong causation.

Gubei, I definitely agree with these connections. Human nature and its lust for power will always be the same.

Said in a different way, Lee and LSM speak of the glorious church and the organic body of Christ as the goal of God's N.T. economy, but it's only used as a decoy to cover their totalitarian plans to control all the LC's and the saints -- no opinions, no freedoms, no diversity, no liberty of expression.

As proof, look at what they do to those who think a little differently or voice their concerns about corruption in the leadership.

awareness · 09-11-2019, 07:12 AM

Where's 'The New Man' when we need him?

Gubei · 09-11-2019, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio

Gubei, I definitely agree with these connections. Human nature and its lust for power will always be the same.

Said in a different way, Lee and LSM speak of the glorious church and the organic body of Christ as the goal of God's N.T. economy, but it's only used as a decoy to cover their totalitarian plans to control all the LC's and the saints -- no opinions, no freedoms, no diversity, no liberty of expression.

As proof, look at what they do to those who think a little differently or voice their concerns about corruption in the leadership.

Thanks, Ohio

1. In western philosophy, Kierkegaard already exposed individuality (individual saint) is superior to Crowd (wrongly conceptualized body of Christ). You can google and find a lot of insightful thoughts about this. Following is one of them.

“Truth always rests with the minority … because the minority is generally formed by those who really have an opinion, while the strength of a majority is illusory, formed by the gangs who have no opinion.”

2. Ephesians 4:1 is shockingly fitted with these findings by Kierkegaard. I mean God gave us not only the Bible but also sound reasoning, and both give us the same conclusion. Unfortunately, WL's teachings seems to be more from die-hard Asian values. (FYI, I'm South Korean. born and grew up in this country, qualified to talk about Asian values

).

07-29-2019, 08:19 AM	#1
UntoHim Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον For God So Loved The World Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,793	Open Letter to Saints in The Local Churches - Andrea McArdle As Posted on GoogleDocs.Com Dear saints of the local churches, After listening to the special fellowship from this past semi annual training (July 2019), I am compelled to respond. During this message, Chris Wilde spoke about ‘covering the brothers’ and he claimed that “if any failure crosses the line and endangers children or breaks a law, they will bring the full authority of the law”. He assures the saints that is being done and has been done. But in my own experience while meeting in Houston Texas that is not the case. I was asked to cover up a sexual abuse at the Local Church in Houston Texas. While meeting with the Church in Houston I was close to a 'new one' off the college campus work. He eagerly came to the meetings and was quickly accepted into our tight knit group of young people. He told me many times about a middle-aged brother who was his prayer and morning revival partner. About a year after the young brother entered the Church in Houston, he came to me and another college age brother one Sunday night visibly distraught. After asking him what was the matter, he broke down and told us that the night before he woke up to find his prayer partner, the older ‘brother’ sexually assaulting him. The details of that assault are not mine to tell, but the image of him curled up in the doorway weeping is seared into my memory. I told him to go to the elders. Being raised in the church, I had full confidence that the elders would know how to take care of the situation. I’m ashamed now that my first thought had not been to contact the police. But I knew in a very deep and perhaps subconscious way that the church handled all matters internally. After the next Lord's table meeting I was approached by an elder, Alan Bayes, with another elder standing near. Alan Bayes told me that what happened to that young brother was terrible, and that they handled the situation by confronting the perpetrator and telling him he was no longer allowed in Young Peoples’ Meetings. I was told that he and the other elder were taking care of this matter. (I will leave out his name because he and I had no direct contact about this incident.) I didn’t question if they were doing anything wrong by not contacting the police. Alan explained to me why it was very important not to ever tell anyone about this, and asked me to “cover the brother.” I nodded my head in agreement, and have kept that promise until now. Growing up in “The Lord’s Recovery” I had heard the term 'covering the brothers' many times and knew it was essential for keeping the saints protected, and for not letting “germs” spread. The elders did not call the police and they did not recommend therapy of any kind. Growing up in the Local Churches, we were taught that mental health professionals are in the “wrong realm” and that they would not understand those of us who have the “high truths.” This mistrust of psychiatry was verbally conveyed in meetings by leading brothers over the years, and is written in the books of ‘The Ministry.’ In a similar way that the victim was groomed by his “prayer partner” for sexual abuse, I had been groomed by the Local Churches to be complicit in covering up a perpertrator’s action. I moved away from Houston soon after this event, and the brother who was assaulted quit meeting with The Church. A couple of years later, I found out that the perpetrator was back in the Young Peoples’ Meetings, apparently his removal never being enforced to begin with. The perpetrator is still meeting today. In the years since this incident I’ve learned about rape culture, sexual grooming, and the dangers of keeping silent. I realize now how damaging and perpetuating the concept of 'covering the brothers' is. It is because of this concept that predators within churches are able to continue to abuse children and young people for years. The Church should be a place where members are intrinsically valued. One would think that the safety of all members would be a priority. By advocating that we cover the brothers, and refusing to report alleged crimes, elders have allowed physical, sexual, emotional, and mental trauma to fester in The Local Churches. Victims of abuse who meet with the Lord’s Recovery, become caught in a catch-22. We’ve all been told that “building the body” is the only way to “overcome” and “get the kingdom reward.” However, victims know that each time they go to a meeting, they might see their abuser. Not only will this prevent healing from the initial attack, this can create additional traumas that may lead to PTSD, anxiety, depression etc. The perpetrator in The Church in Houston has maintained access to countless children and young people. He may have continued to abuse. I have to live with these facts. The way this situation was handled should be deeply distressing to all of us. And it’s not unique. Being asked to cover up a sexual assault helped me to see the ugly facts behind the “church-life.” I want to be clear; my response, contrary to what was claimed in the aforementioned meeting as well as in message 8 from Ron Kangas, is not out of a rebellion from God or a desire to rebel against any “deputy authority.” I have not been meeting with the local churches since 2009 and have found great peace out of the “Lord’s Recovery.” This is not rebellion, rather a call to action. It matters to me that this community, with so many I love in it, is a safe place. My call to elders and leading brothers is to stop deflecting from your responsibility. Elders not only have a responsibility to keep the rest of the body safe from predators, they also have a responsibility to the rest of society. When abuse goes unreported to the police, predators are able to repeat the abuse over and over again without a criminal record. Eventually, like in my situation, The Church is more than likely to lose the abused and anyone asked to cover it up, and will hold on to the abuser. Is this what you want, dear members of the body? Is there no remorse in the elders in Houston for choosing a sexual predator over protecting us? Elders and co-workers nation-wide need to admit that there is a lack of policies and protections. They should admit that they have helped to foster a culture of abuse. Are church leaders willing to communicate transparently with law enforcement going forward? Will they partner with and listen to specialists to put forward a cohesive policy that prevents continued abuse in the church, especially against young people and children? Are leaders ready to believe survivors? Most importantly, are the elders ready to end the practice of 'covering the brothers'? ‘Covering the brothers’ is tantamount to hiding abuse, and this unhealthy practice leaves survivors to fend for themselves. The church life is not like Disneyland, abuse happens everywhere. My concern though, is how it is handled. This situation was mishandled. But events like this are not uncommon. I urge you, dear reader, to ask around. I’ve talked with other church kids and heard dozens of unique instances of serious abuse, along with cover-ups and leadership inaction. Some of these events are ongoing and very recent. Abuse happens everywhere, but environments with unequal power dynamics are especially prone to fostering abusive behavior. Some might try to deflect responsibility by arguing that The Local Churches are an “Organism and not an Organization.” In fact The Church is an organization. Each locality is a 501(c)(3) not for profit organization. Any organization that claims millions of members (as they did in the Special Fellowship), should have a procedure in place for abuse for every locality follow. Church Life standards and practices should be at least as rigorous as the rest of society. Even the Catholic Church has new laws to keep abuse allegations and their handling transparent. If The Local Church claims that it is “God’s move on the earth today” it can do the same. I do not name Alan Bayes in Houston because he is a terrible person. Quite the contrary, I have been helped by him numerous times and have admiration and respect for him in many ways. However, the elders and co-working brothers have a responsibility to their localities. All of the elders, co-workers and leading brothers who know of abuse and covered it up need to be held accountable. A new standard operating procedure for dealing with current and future cases must be adopted. I encourage any member of the Local Churches who survived abuse of any kind, or who have seen such coverups to speak out, even if you do so anonymously. Severe transgressions are being “covered” up. Abuse happens between “serving ones” and young people; between parents and children; and between husbands and wives. Elders in the Local Churches can and must do something to protect those who are vulnerable. I personally know the pain of being in danger. In another instance, I told an elder and he did nothing about my plea for help. I want all victims to know that I see you, and that your story matters. If you would like to make your story public, please feel free to contact me if you need help. My heart is for you and you are worthy. Together, and even if you choose to remain anonymous, we will advocate for much needed changes and transparency. Ephesians 5:11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them 1 Tim 5:20 But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning. The truth will set me free, Andrea McArdle andrea.mcardle@gmail.com Meetings I reference: Special fellowship mtg: http://livingtohim.com/2019/07/speci...nual-training/ Message 8 Ron Kangas https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l1MMmy...ZHrWTseb8KRpq9 Jo's letter: http://bit.ly/JoFBPostLeavingRecovery __________________ αὐτῷ ἡ δόξα καὶ τὸ κράτος εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων ἀμήν - 1 Peter 5:11

08-23-2019, 06:38 AM	#2
UntoHim Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον For God So Loved The World Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,793	Re: Open Letter to Saints in The Local Churches - Andrea McArdle Andrea recently added this to her Open Letter: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edit: the Church in Houston has held a corporate prayer meeting (8.7.19) over this letter in which they tell the Saints I am lying, gossiping and spreading rumors. Joe Davis who gave the message also said that because I wrote this letter I will not be an overcomer. You can listen to that message here: http://www.churchinhouston.org/category/audio/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - __________________ αὐτῷ ἡ δόξα καὶ τὸ κράτος εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων ἀμήν - 1 Peter 5:11

08-23-2019, 06:54 AM	#3
Ohio Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Greater Ohio Posts: 13,654	Re: Open Letter to Saints in The Local Churches - Andrea McArdle And because of the way Joe Davis lies about people and hides evil, *he will not be an overcomer!* But perhaps I am wrong. Isn't there a verse in Revelations that says, "He who overcomes by publicly lying about God's people and protecting the ministry of Lee will escape the judgment seat of Christ." Help me out here folks. Where's that verse at? __________________ Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!. Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point!

08-23-2019, 07:12 AM	#4
Raptor Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 390	Re: Open Letter to Saints in The Local Churches - Andrea McArdle Christ is uniquely and exclusively qualified to judge: Acts 10:42 And He has charged us to proclaim to the people and solemnly testify that this is the One who was designated by God to be the Judge of the living and the dead. It is the judgement seat of Christ. 2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all be manifested before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done through the body according to what he has practiced, whether good or bad. It is the Lord Himself who is the righteous Judge. 2 Timothy 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, with which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will recompense me in that day, and not only me but also all those who have loved His appearing. He alone decides who will receive a reward. Revelation 2&3. To him who overcomes, to him I will .... Revelation 22:12 Behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me to render to each one as his work is.

08-24-2019, 04:21 AM	#6
Nell Admin/Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 2,055	Houston Chronicle Articles I found this shocking series of articles in the Houston Chronicle regarding longstanding sexual abuse cover ups in the Southern Baptist Convention. https://www.houstonchronicle.com/loc...buse-of-faith/ Joe Davis is a former employee of the Chronicle. Further, this was posted on Fox News this morning: https://www.foxnews.com/us/churches-...-sex-offenders Nell

08-29-2019, 08:24 PM	#10
UntoHim Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον For God So Loved The World Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,793	Re: Open Letter to Saints in The Local Churches - Andrea McArdle So my friend Bubbles, Did you actually read the letter that Andrea wrote, or are you just screaming and ranting off of the top of your head? If you read the letter (which I doubt you did in full), which part of the letter indicated that this brother had "anger issues"? Not a trick question Bubbles - please enlighten us about this brother's anger issues. Bubbles, you are welcomed to dialogue and discuss. What you are not welcomed to do is condemn and attack the victim without cause or warrant, as is done in the Local Church of Witness Lee. Why is your first inclination to believe the attacker rather than the victim? I hope you realize that those days are OVER...not only in society in general, but maybe even in the Local Church of Witness Lee specifically. Maybe you need to do some pray-reading with Chris Wilde...He has said that these days are over as well. (praise God for this!) Let me assure you, those days are absolutely, unequivocally OVER here on LocalChurchDiscussions! The attacker and the abuser no longer have the upper hand as they did in the Local Church of Witness Lee. The attacker and the abuser no longer have the benefit of the doubt. They have not earned the benefit of the doubt here in this venue. Quite the contrary, they are discredited and proven guilty until and unless some strong evidence comes forth to prove otherwise. The victim rules and reigns here. "Let God be true, but every man a liar" - __________________ αὐτῷ ἡ δόξα καὶ τὸ κράτος εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων ἀμήν - 1 Peter 5:11

09-11-2019, 07:12 AM	#20
awareness Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 8,064	Re: Open Letter to Saints in The Local Churches - Andrea McArdle Where's 'The New Man' when we need him? __________________ Cults: My brain will always be there for you. Thinking. So you don't have to. There's a serpent in every paradise.