[Cal]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

1. This is your thread, you should be the one to provide the references to WL's ministry. The reference to the hymnal is weak, what number hymn was that and was it written by the saints or WL? WL wrote many hymns and published many volumes, certainly we can get a clear reference of his teaching to discuss. Let us be realistic, if you want to make a hymn about the two trees in the garden you are not going to fit "tree of knowledge of good and evil" into any song. So bad song, poor writer, but doesn't prove anything concerning WL's teaching.

You can't possibly really be this naive. Tell me you are just taking the devil's advocate's position.

No, Lee didn't write it. But Lee micromanaged everything. I'm sure he reviewed every hymn that was put in the permanent supplement. Which where this hymn is.

Second, WL was emphasizing that this was "the tree of knowledge of good and evil" instead of "the apple" which was how it was misrepresented prior to WL.

The difference is "the apple" was never mentioned to make people suspicious of apples. But Lee clearly meant to take a swipe at "knowledge" and affect people's opinions about it.


My reference is Lee's book, The Tree of Life. I'll gather some quotes, but don't have it with me.

2. My point is simply that to say psychology was not useful in spiritual ministry is not as egregious 40 years ago as saying it today might be. I have heard many Christian teachers speak far worse than that.

So you are asking me for quotes, but are not going to provide any yourself?

3. Once again WL taught extensively on this point, and used many NT verses. If you want to say that his teaching is flat wrong I think you should be quoting his teaching. Also I would disagree with your assertion. I think that Jasper is a critical type in the NT of Christian transformation, and petrified wood is an excellent picture of the type of Christian transformation that WL taught. Jasper replaces the carbon of the wood molecule by molecule, even if some of the wood is rotten or corrupt. WL often used this NT example when teaching about transformation.

So you go from the picture of jasper, to petrified wood (which is not related to jasper, nor referred to in the Bible), to the process of how petrified wood is created, to arrive at a doctrine of transformation which is never alluded to lterally in the Bible? Creating doctrines from the whole cloth of type is risky. But creating one from a type which is not even in the Bible (petrified wood) is, well....

4. What you didn't do is quote WL saying that the only factors in the rapture were growth and maturity. Without a quote from WL to discuss we are not anchored anywhere and can feel free to flap in the breeze. My point was simple, Moses was an example of both faithfulness and maturity in growth, and he was also one of only two examples of rapture.

Z, I think you are just arguing to argue. Anyone who sat at the feet of Lee knows he likened the rapture to a harvest, and that the ones that matured early would be raptured early. And he also taught that if you didn't mature, you would spend time in the "dark closet" to get the growth you lacked. Everyone knows this, as do you.