Quote:
Originally Posted by UntoHim
Ohio, shall I just chalk up your "search for a serpent in every paradise" blast as you getting out of the wrong side of bed, and not really a not-so-subtle ad hominem? (and that IS against the rules)
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Hey. I know this may seem strange, but while Ohio's comment may have been aimed my direction (at least partly), I do not consider it to be an ad hominem. It surely was not a statement against my character, even if it was a questioning of motives.
And while motives may not invalidate a position, sometimes the fact that a position is taken may be for no other reason than bifurcating broad issues into a myriad of smaller ones to create the appearance of more problem that there is. And for that reason, every time Ohio winces out loud, I at least consider whether I was trying to just pick on Lee again.
But while it may be that it is occasionally true, I mostly am more interested in getting clear on what I do, or should, continue to think and believe as a matter of moving forward, not just to point a finger at Lee. And for me, I keep getting stuck in this "good water from a bad well" conundrum when we try to tie our positive experiences of the 60s or 70s (for newer ones, the early years of your participation) to Lee. And since I have found Lee, and even Nee, to be a bad well long before 1960, I have a problem with them being the source of the good things we experienced. Not saying we didn't experience them.
But maybe we have miss-attributed the source. It was not the ground of the church or "Christ and the church" that provided our experience. It was not "God's Economy" as taught by Lee. It was Christ. We may have already become steeped in the early phases of the rhetoric that allowed for the MOTA to eventually step out of the shadows, but we were enjoying a clearer focus on Christ. The excess baggage was not yet noticeably heavy on us. We had become freed from older ways of Christianity and were allowed to continue in that freedom for a while.
The keys to all of this were Christ and us. We had come to focus strictly on Christ, so things were good. But the rhetoric, and even practices that would eventually allow Lee out from behind his "little itinerant preacher" mask were setting us up for what was to come. My biggest goal in all of this is to separate truth from fiction. Lee did little for us other than cause us to reject something else. The addition of "and the church" to our commitment to Christ was a sign of things to come. Of additions we had not yet seen.
It was never "and the church" that made things good. It was just Christ. It was never the teachings of the little Chinese preacher. It was just Christ.
And I have also been somewhat diligent to question the rhetoric that we maintain to this day. Not because it is from Lee, but because I question its value. Like my immensely unpopular take on "experiencing Christ." My problem is not simply with the term. It is with fact that virtually every example is "spiritual" within the context of a spiritual-secular divide. A lot like the inner-life movement out of which Nee's and Lee's teaching emerge. A teaching in which the living of the normal life is not spiritual. Being righteous in living is admirable, but not spiritual. And in the case of Lee's teaching, not really necessary. And when I point out how much of the discussions of "experiencing Christ" are about quiet times, feelings, "joy," etc., someone suddenly jumps in with an example (finally) of something practical that could be an experience of Christ. But it is like pulling teeth to get even that concession and makes me more convinced that we really think that experiencing Christ is about "spiritual" stuff and little or none of the other.
Someone even described some of this recently saying something like "it is when we draw near to Christ." What does that mean? Seems like the closest we really get would be to actually feed of clothe Christ. And that happens when we feed or clothe those in need around us.
No, I do not think that the Christian life is simply good works. But I think that good works are so much a part of it yet we see works as also-rans. When I read the scripture, I do not see a lot of advice to just read a lot of scripture and pray a lot. I see a whole lot of how to live. Even Paul's spiritual stuff was provided as backdrop to getting the very practical right.
Besides, our spiritual work of service is not prayer, but our bodies. Don't need much of a body if it is all in your head (mind, emotions, will).