[OBW]

First, I’m a little surprised that you would determine that the return of Christ is dictated by man and delayed by his lack of proper organizational skills.

But more than that, I am a little befuddled that the fact that there was any kind of organization, whether apostles, elders, deacons, or whatever we flawed humans turned it into over time, is suggested as the cause of the problems we see today in the whole of Christianity. And then you mention that it might have helped Lee do what he did to the LC. Actually, it was a willful ruse that there was not an organization while that man (and his deputies) hid behind the curtain and caused the Great and Mighty Oz to appear on the screen that caused the LC’s problems.

Organization did not cause the RCC’s errors. The false belief that there was a succession of supreme leaders starting with Peter and passing through the various popes did it. If there is one who is God’s deputy on earth, then whatever he says must be true. If the one that rises to power is an unregenerated fool, then the changes could be devastating.

Surely the appointment of elders will not be blamed for Ephesus’ loss of its first love. But neither did elders stop the decline. Elders didn’t invite Jezebel, but neither did they throw her out. It may have been more that they were unwilling to stand up to error and instead abdicated their responsibility. That suggests a lack of leadership.

So we won’t have elders. Got a better solution? Do you propose that lack of clear leadership will successfully keep Hitler out of leadership? The “madly ambitious” tend to rise to power in a vacuum.

And how does Babylon fit into this?

The problem is that so far I have seen a lot of correlation. There were errors and mistakes and there were elders. There also were members of the body of Christ. If we just have no members of the body of Christ, then the body of Christ will not be lead into error.

Find a causal link. I have not seen one suggested. I have only seen correlation. Might as well determine that the fact that airplanes are allowed to fly in the sky is the reason for the 9/11 attacks. Yeah, I know. That’s way off base. But have you done anything more than fret about the appointment of elders and deacons and the separate observation of errors in the church? If you want to do an “Emerging Church” kind of conversation that talks about things for 20 years but comes to no conclusions, have at it. Otherwise, either find a link or cease. Just suggesting that there might be a link is getting old. This is not the first time it has come up and I don’t recall that there has yet been a causal link found. How long do we continue to search for something that may not be there? When do we decide that it is negative research and conclude that we have found nothing and that more time spent will just find more nothing?

I do not think that questioning the Bible is a bad thing. But it should eventually lead to something. It should help us ferret out our errors, or strengthen our faith as we discover that what we previously accepted based on the word of another is seen fully by our own inquiry. But there should be a limit to endless doubt and angst. If this continually revisited issue does not begin to conclude, then it seems to suggest a desire to find fault but no ability to succeed at that goal. I do not say that you are willfully trying to fault the existence of elders and deacons, but rather that you are unwilling to accept that a lengthy yet unsuccessful search for proof of that fault should say something.

Now you know my position. Carry on as you will. If you come up with something, that will be good.