Double Standards

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Terry

If the ground is so important why were so many GLA localities sued or at the minimum pro-LSM members going to form their own church/business association? I believe it was Minoru who likened these localities to leprosy- infected that needed to be torn down. In that sense he's addressing the condition of the church and ignoring the ground.

It's still mind-boggling to me how the LC could have fallen to the point where they will do something like form a business partnership in order to "take the ground" in a city. If there is a church in Toronto already in existence, then it goes against their very doctrine to form a new church in Toronto. If nothing else, the whole episode demonstrates some of the underlying problems with the ground doctrine, but the fact that they are willing to bend the rules is indicative of a large amount of hypocrisy.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Freedom

It's still mind-boggling to me how the LC could have fallen to the point where they will do something like form a business partnership in order to "take the ground" in a city. If there is a church in Toronto already in existence, then it goes against their very doctrine to form a new church in Toronto. If nothing else, the whole episode demonstrates some of the underlying problems with the ground doctrine, but the fact that they are willing to bend the rules is indicative of a large amount of hypocrisy.

The problem is that while many of us rank a file members would not have gone where it eventually went on our own, we were duped enough to buy the excuses to ignore the Bible.

Of course, we had already ignored the Bible when we bought the whole idea of the ground.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

It's still mind-boggling to me how the LC could have fallen to the point where they will do something like form a business partnership in order to "take the ground" in a city. If there is a church in Toronto already in existence, then it goes against their very doctrine to form a new church in Toronto. If nothing else, the whole episode demonstrates some of the underlying problems with the ground doctrine, but the fact that they are willing to bend the rules is indicative of a large amount of hypocrisy.

IIRC there are something like 3 or 4 LC's in Toronto, with each on the "ground of oneness." Each "storm" brings another.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Ohio

IIRC there are something like 3 or 4 LC's in Toronto, with each on the "ground of oneness." Each "storm" brings another.

Over the years, I heard vague references to these types of situations where there is an 'independent' group in a city alongside an LSM church, and they both call themselves the church in their city, and each have their own Lord's table meeting. Of course, LCers think nothing of having 5 or more separate Lord's tables meetings in districts in the same city. However, the minute a group not associated with LSM has a Lord's table meeting apart from LSM churches, it is labeled as 'divisive'. Oh the hypocrisy!

[NewManLiving]

Originally Posted by Freedom

Over the years, I heard vague references to these types of situations where there is an 'independent' group in a city alongside an LSM church, and they both call themselves the church in their city, and each have their own Lord's table meeting. Of course, LCers think nothing of having 5 or more separate Lord's tables meetings in districts in the same city. However, the minute a group not associated with LSM has a Lord's table meeting apart from LSM churches, it is labeled as 'divisive'. Oh the hypocrisy!

This is yet more proof that the doctrine of locality is not biblical or at least not directly commanded by the Lord. If the LSM cannot take their own doctrine seriously, then how can they expect others to be convinced?

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Freedom

Over the years, I heard vague references to these types of situations where there is an 'independent' group in a city alongside an LSM church, and they both call themselves the church in their city, and each have their own Lord's table meeting. Of course, LCers think nothing of having 5 or more separate Lord's tables meetings in districts in the same city. However, the minute a group not associated with LSM has a Lord's table meeting apart from LSM churches, it is labeled as 'divisive'. Oh the hypocrisy!

But they link their own multiple meetings through a single group of elders and a single checkbook/bank account.

It is the mundane that defines them as different spiritually.

And thinking that the mundane is a spiritual difference may say something about their spirituality.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Freedom

Over the years, I heard vague references to these types of situations where there is an 'independent' group in a city alongside an LSM church, and they both call themselves the church in their city, and each have their own Lord's table meeting. Of course, LCers think nothing of having 5 or more separate Lord's tables meetings in districts in the same city. However, the minute a group not associated with LSM has a Lord's table meeting apart from LSM churches, it is labeled as 'divisive'. Oh the hypocrisy!

Riverside, California comes to mind. There's former elders among former lcers meeting there, but Ron Kangas describes them as "meeting indepently" since there's already Christians meeting as the Church in Riverside.
"We receive all blood washed,, redeemed, regenerated..." Oh, is that so? Suppose Nigel Tomes or Steve Isitt decided to visit the Church in Riverside. How would that go? This scenario translates into another double-standard "let the past be in the past".....If that was the case Christians meeting as the Church in Riverside, Moreno Valley, San Bernardino, or any other Inland Empire locality would not have any problem receiving Nigel, Steve, etc.
Truly the LS mindset of letting the past be in the past, when I was meeting with a Washington state locality I asked a hypothetical question (prior to the brother's passing), would Bill Freeman be welcome if he wanted to visit? The elder's response to me, "we'd have to fellowship with the blended brothers". That says it all.

[JJ]

The question I have is whether or not the Lord has blessed these local churches who don't embrace LSM leadership with his presence, annointing, and blessing or not. I don't care who takes the lead, as long as the Lord Spirit pours his abundant blessing upon us. I waited for that to happen in my locality and region where LSM leadership is embraced so I could happily also embrace it, and was only frustrated. What was stunning to me is I found more of the Spirit's outpouring and abundant blessing outside TLR , I think because the Word of God is held as the ultimate authority versus a given preacher's interpretation.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by JJ

The question I have is whether or not the Lord has blessed these local churches who don't embrace LSM leadership with his presence, annointing, and blessing or not. I don't care who takes the lead, as long as the Lord Spirit pours his abundant blessing upon us.

Same here. For years as an adult meeting with various localities, I've been observant. Observed how brother's spoke. Putting down non-LSM Christians had become an easy way to "get over" with the LC assembly and receive a resounding amen. What behavior is that? Instead of humility, I observed pride. Instead of grace towards brothers who left the recovery, I observed malice.

When I was meeting with the local churches, I didn't care who was an elder or a coworker, but over time I did want to see a right heart towards our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Terry

Same here. For years as an adult meeting with various localities, I've been observant. Observed how brother's spoke. Putting down non-LSM Christians had become an easy way to "get over" with the LC assembly and receive a resounding amen. What behavior is that? Instead of humility, I observed pride. Instead of grace towards brothers who left the recovery, I observed malice.

When I was meeting with the local churches, I didn't care who was an elder or a coworker, but over time I did want to see a right heart towards our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.

I agree, we should follow those who set a good example of Christ-likeness in word and deed.

"for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" (Romans 14:17 New American Standard Bible)

[HERn]

Originally Posted by JJ

The question I have is whether or not the Lord has blessed these local churches who don't embrace LSM leadership with his presence, annointing, and blessing or not. I don't care who takes the lead, as long as the Lord Spirit pours his abundant blessing upon us. I waited for that to happen in my locality and region where LSM leadership is embraced so I could happily also embrace it, and was only frustrated. What was stunning to me is I found more of the Spirit's outpouring and abundant blessing outside TLR , I think because the Word of God is held as the ultimate authority versus a given preacher's interpretation.

I really like the simplicity of the Lord Jesus. He said that wherever 2 or 3 meet together in His name He is there among them. Nothing about the ground, names, or denominations. So simple. Nothing about one trumpet, one ministry, one publishing house, one man. Just wherever 2 or 3 meet together.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by HERn

I really like the simplicity of the Lord Jesus. He said that wherever 2 or 3 meet together in His name He is there among them. Nothing about the ground, names, or denominations. So simple. Nothing about one trumpet, one ministry, one publishing house, one man. Just wherever 2 or 3 meet together.

Yes, simply meeting in His name. The Word and our experience confirm it.