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[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Yes. And I'm in good company going back to the beginning of Christianity. But modernity, and science, is really giving Christianity a hard way to go theses days, like never before.

Plus, Christianity in is such a mess ... and comes nowhere close to Jesus' prayer in John 17. So bad indeed that Witness Lee could claim that Christianity is Christless ... and it had the ring of truth to it.

And now, evangelicals are voting for Trump ... and the wheels are coming off the evangelical wagon ... and making them look bad, and/or crazy.

So ... Isn't modernity and science winning? By observation and evidence, Christianity does indeed look hopeless ... sorry to say.

It's your view that things are a mess. Like I always said, "it all depends on where you get your news." Are things today any worse than during the "dark ages?" Even God responded to Elijah's critique, "i have 7,000 who have not..."

You read some political article about Trump, and it shapes your whole view of the church?" Science winning what? Jesus said the kingdom of God does not come by observation. You are not going to find it on the news.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It's your view that things are a mess.

No it's pretty much the view of all Christians ... who believe their group is right and everybody else's group (most of the Christians) is wrong. It's a very popular opinion, by supposed insiders, that Christianity is a mess.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Are things today any worse than during the "dark ages?"

It's not the dark ages because of the secular state. The secular state rose up and threw some fixes at Christianity ; stripped it of it's political power, but couldn't put Humpty Dumpty together. So Christianity stays a mess. It's a conviction. What do you expect? Thank God, or rather the secular state, for the fixes so far.

Originally Posted by Ohio

You read some political article about Trump, and it shapes your whole view of the church?"

Hard to tell where the crazy begins, and where it ends. I guess I wouldn't have that trouble if I just stuck to one news source.

[Ohio]

No it's pretty much the view of all Christians ... who believe their group is right and everybody else's group (most of the Christians) is wrong. It's a very popular opinion, by supposed insiders, that Christianity is a mess.
That's too funny. I'm not buying. How can you know everything God is doing by reading multiple news sources on the internet? Anyways, I no longer listen to the view of those "who believe their group is right and everybody else's group is wrong." I thought we left that nonsense years ago.

It's not the dark ages because of the secular state. The secular state rose up and threw some fixes at Christianity ; stripped it of it's political power, but couldn't put Humpty Dumpty together. So Christianity stays a mess. It's a conviction. What do you expect? Thank God, or rather the secular state, for the fixes so far.
I don't think some "secular state" has fixed anything in the church. If Christianity was always the "mess" you say it is, then it would have died off centuries ago. Who would pay attention to such a mess? You apparently spend too much attention examining the tares, and not the Lord Himself, who indwells the wheat.

Hard to tell where the crazy begins, and where it ends. I guess I wouldn't have that trouble if I just stuck to one news source.
God is doing an invisible work, like I said "not by observation," in His believers. This world is all chaotic, and it even affects the people of God, but if you think the children of God are too messed up to spend time with, what is the alternative? trusting the government? trusting your own resources? trusting mother earth?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

No it's pretty much the view of all Christians ... who believe their group is right and everybody else's group (most of the Christians) is wrong. It's a very popular opinion, by supposed insiders, that Christianity is a mess.
That's too funny. I'm not buying. How can you know everything God is doing by reading multiple news sources on the internet? Anyways, I no longer listen to the view of those "who believe their group is right and everybody else's group is wrong." I thought we left that nonsense years ago.

We did. But it didn't leave us. We now know how to see it that way. Once you see it you can't unsee it.

But really, we can't blame Christianity, for being such a mess. It's not Christianity's fault. The blame belongs to human nature.

That's why we see it everywhere ; that Christianity is a mess. We see it both in the masses, and up close and personal. I personally know crazy Christians. And I love 'em. They bring their crazy to Christianity.

That's why Christianity is such a mess. It's made up of humans. That Jesus commands us to love,

[zeek]

Hey folks! Get ready for Witness Lee's vision of world domination realized only worse if Ted Cruz gets into the White House!

"Anyone who has watched [Ted] Cruz on the stump knows that he often references the important role that his father, traveling evangelist Rafael Cruz, has played in his life. During a 2012 sermon at New Beginnings Church in Bedford, Texas, Rafael Cruz described his son’s political campaign as a direct fulfillment of biblical prophecy.

The elder Cruz told the congregation that God would anoint Christian “kings” to preside over an “end-time transfer of wealth” from the wicked to the righteous. After this sermon, Larry Huch, the pastor of New Beginnings, claimed Cruz’s recent election to the U.S. Senate was a sign that he was one of these kings.

According to his father and Huch, Ted Cruz is anointed by God to help Christians in their effort to “go to the marketplace and occupy the land … and take dominion” over it. This “end-time transfer of wealth” will relieve Christians of all financial woes, allowing true believers to ascend to a position of political and cultural power in which they can build a Christian civilization. When this Christian nation is in place (or back in place), Jesus will return.

Rafael Cruz and Larry Huch preach a brand of evangelical theology called Seven Mountains Dominionism. They believe Christians must take dominion over seven aspects of culture: family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business and government. The name of the movement comes from Isaiah 2:2: “Now it shall come to pass in the latter days that the Lord’s house shall be established on the top of the mountains.”http://www.religionnews.com/2016/02/...ca-commentary/

[OBW]

These people scare the ____ out of me. I think I'd rather have Bernie than that. I can at least be a Christian without the harm that kind of malarkey does to our reputation.

[OBW]

The following was posted by someone elsewhere (I am not identifying where or who because I would prefer to take on this without reference to persons):

Not to sound facetious, but I have far more trouble understanding how intelligent Christian people could espouse liberalism, than Lee and the LC's. I'm serious here. It just boggles my mind how people could become aware of the lies and corruption of the current administration, and still support it. Understanding the folks in the LC is far easier.

So the question of the day is:

Why is it that we presume that an intelligent Christian cannot espouse liberalism in general?

To answer this question we first need to separate liberalism from any particular administration and from the evil actions that individuals with positions make take.

There are many evil and/or stupid actions/positions that are take by people of both sides of the political spectrum:

• Abortions
• Killing abortion doctors
• Railing on women who have had abortions
• Homosexuality
• Physical, economic, sociological and psychological assaults on homosexuals
• Acting unrighteously toward any who are identified as homosexual
• Forcing people who disagree to act as if they agree (under threat of law or monetary penalty)

These are just a few examples of how some people act on both sides of a few of the hot debates of the day.

These are issues that various people think of as immoral. We are not talking about these things.

Let's stick to the general position of liberalism v conservatism.


And if you want to consider the LCM in terms of a liberal position, I know that there have been some illegal aliens that were regular attenders in Dallas. That may not be a liberal position, but it is pretty laid-back relative to standing for the conservative position.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

These people scare the ____ out of me. I think I'd rather have Bernie than that. I can at least be a Christian without the harm that kind of malarkey does to our reputation.

It is Bernie's supporters, like those black lives matter hoods, that scare the @#$% out of me. I was not very sympathetic to The Donald's campaign until I watched those thugs shut down his campaign rally in Chicago.

In another well-publicized Trump rally, I actually agreed with that old guy punching that goon who flipped him off with both hands. Trump offered to pay his legal expenses. Good for him.

What some of Bernie's supporters have done is not freedom of speech, it's called starting trouble and provoking people. Bernie is using class warfare to promote his agenda. That's the standard M.O. for third world insurrections. Dictators around the world have done that for decades.