"Lord Thou Saidst"

[OBW]

But so far I am unable to determine if your claim of "very strong biblical and historical evidence to support the practice of pray reading the word of God" is correct since I do not have a copy of the book.

So where does one find a copy of Lord Thou Saidst? I've been unable to find it in the LSM online books. Another source . . . ?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by OBW

But so far I am unable to determine if your claim of "very strong biblical and historical evidence to support the practice of pray reading the word of God" is correct since I do not have a copy of the book.

So where does one find a copy of Lord Thou Saidst? I've been unable to find it in the LSM online books. Another source . . . ?

https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/sh...rd-thou-saidst

https://www.amazon.com/REVELATION-SC...audible&sr=8-1

[ZNPaaneah]

"You put your finger down upon the very lines, and say "Do as thou hast said." This is the best praying in all the world. O beloved, be filled with God's word. C.H.Spurgeon, The Secret of Power in Prayer (London: Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, 1888, reprinted by Pilgrim Publications, Pasadena, TX), p.21

[ZNPaaneah]

What is our weapon? Our Leader has placed in our hands the irresistible sword of the Spirit which defeated the devil in the wilderness -- The Word of God. But its aggressive and conquering power is released only through the prayer of faith. Our instructions are, "Take the sword of the Spirit...praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit...with all perseverance." This is no mere passive praying. Only aggressive prayer based on the Word of God dislodges the enemy from his citadel. J. Oswald Sanders, Effective Prayer, p.36

[ZNPaaneah]

"Lest we should be as far away from the ears of God as we are from His precepts, the recollection of the precepts paves the way to heaven for our prayers." Tertullian, Concerning Prayer, p.28

[ZNPaaneah]

Let there be study of the Divine Word, mingled with prayer. Olive Wyon, The School of Prayer, p.95

[ZNPaaneah]

Now UntoHim and others have made a valid point, none of these quotes resemble the practice in the Local Church promoted by LSM in their meetings.

1. There is little or no genuine encouragement to "study the word mingled with prayer" rather you are told to read and learn the interpretation of WL, sanctioned by the Blended's.

2. They are very far away from the precepts of God, particularly Paul's ordinance not to sue your brothers and sisters, but that is simply the tip of the iceberg. If the recollection of God's precepts paves the way to heaven with your prayers, what does the willful ignoring of them do?

3. They claim they have the "irresistible sword of the spirit" but when was the last time we saw them conquer anything? What devil has been dislodged from what citadel by them?

So let's put our finger down on God's word -- 2 But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers, who shall privily bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

Lord we have shown these to be false teachers. They use the Bible and the faithful words of your followers to justify their acts, and yet it is a charade for the law court. In practice it is nothing like the real thing, it is a forgery designed to make merchandise of the saints. Worse yet, the very leaders of the movement today cannot claim to not know the truth, they wrote this book. The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat: 3 all things therefore whatsoever they bid you, these do and observe: but do not ye after their works; for they say, and do not.

We have shown that they have brought in destructive heresies, -- the doctrine of the ground of the church is destructive, it is divisive, and it has become abusive.

we have shown that their doctrine of MOTA denies the Master that bought them,

so we ask that as they have sown, so shall they reap. Bring upon them a bountiful harvest of a swift destruction.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

But so far I am unable to determine if your claim of "very strong biblical and historical evidence to support the practice of pray reading the word of God" is correct since I do not have a copy of the book.

So where does one find a copy of Lord Thou Saidst? I've been unable to find it in the LSM online books. Another source . . . ?

That's funny. The book is not available?

Prolly the one LSM book I would want to hold onto, and they refuse to print it.

Like ZNP said, this book would be their undoing.

If nothing else, it shows us how WL changed RG, not for the better, but for the worse.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Like ZNP said, this book would be their undoing.

If nothing else, it shows us how WL changed RG, not for the better, but for the worse.

"Prayer it is, when it is within the compass of God's word; and it is blasphemy, or at best vain babbling, when the petition is beside the book." John Bunyan, A Discourse Touching Prayer, p.265.

One could see why LSM would not like the saints to read that quote.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

"Prayer it is, when it is within the compass of God's word; and it is blasphemy, or at best vain babbling, when the petition is beside the book." John Bunyan, A Discourse Touching Prayer, p.265.

One could see why LSM would not like the saints to read that quote.

ZNP, did this book just vanish from sight, or was it actively banned?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

ZNP, did this book just vanish from sight, or was it actively banned?

I have no idea.

[ZNPaaneah]

What we know for a fact is that Ray G, Benson P, Kerry R., and Ed M. are all extremely familiar with this book. We also know that they teach that the practice of pray reading is Biblical and was taught by the church fathers going all the way back to Jerome, Tertullian and Augustine. Yet they also know that the practice of pray reading that they teach is not at all the practice that the Bible or the Christian teachers teach. Nowhere in any of these quotes does it describe pray reading the ministry of a preacher. If anything there are quotes that portray that as vain babbling or even blasphemy.

We also know that this book was used to defend the practice of pray reading in the law courts as a practice that is fundamental to Christianity, yet as soon as that purpose was fulfilled it was discarded. LSM doesn't even list this book as one that can be ordered.

We don't know the reason why they felt it was useful to defend their practice as Biblical and a "recovered truth" and yet not useful to teach the practice to the saints. The only thing we do know is that when EM, KR, RG or BP teaches that Pray Reading of WL's books is scriptural and a recovered truth, that they know this is a lie.

"Authority for truth and practice among the believers must rest solely upon the Word of God with any review of church history serving as confirmation and encouragement." (Ray Graver, Lord Thou Saidst..., LSM, 1981, p.35)

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

We don't know the reason why they felt it was useful to defend their practice as Biblical and a "recovered truth" and yet not useful to teach the practice to the saints. The only thing we do know is that when EM, KR, RG or BP teaches that Pray Reading of WL's books is scriptural and a recovered truth, that they know this is a lie.

This is classic LSM equivocation to deceive the faithful. These wordsmiths at LSM will scour 2 millennia of Christian writings to prove that praying the word of God has been practice by noted men of God for like ... forever.

Then they teach their people to pray-read Lee's books, as if this is the same thing, and call it part of our "recovered" heritage. So deceptive.

Even more troubling is knowing this is a blatant lie, and yet continuing to teach it and practice it. To lie in this way is to walk in the darkness, deceiving themselves, making Him a liar, and the truth is not in them. (I John 1.5-10)