The Four Horses - Revelation 6

[Raptor]

4 horses - highlights of world history:

White: the Word of God, the testimony of Jesus
Red: war
Black: world commerce
Pale: death

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Raptor

4 horses - highlights of world history:

White: the Word of God, the testimony of Jesus
Red: war
Black: world commerce
Pale: death

Interesting view on the black horse. It always did seem like a "squeeze" to get "famine" as the interpretation. Perhaps inflation might also be a relevant interpretation since v.6.6 seems to imply that a sack of flour would cost a whole day's wages, which is usually the initial "side-effect" when any country decides to embrace socialism.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Raptor

4 horses - highlights of world history:

White: the Word of God, the testimony of Jesus
Red: war
Black: world commerce
Pale: death

This interpretation comes from WL.
Unfortuantely he was wrong as in many other palces. Well, no body is perfect.
There is nothing at all positive and nothing indicating that it was Word of God.
All four was connected to creation as we should read.
White horse here is imitation of original. Lord Jesus will kill with Word (Sword) coming out of His mouth. Nowhere before bow is connected to Jesus or saints or overcoming.
He badly connected other verses with overcomers.
This is not difficult to see inconsistency in that interpretation.
Gospel has nothing to do wit overcoming. Jesus is knocking to the heart door and waiting... do You see here force?
So this is one of WL freestyle acrobatics.

If I can also interprate , crown is symbol of power, authority.
I risk saying that, but it can be also, that we are witnesses of first Withe Horse.
Why?
Very simple. Allover the world, saints are getting the same leading and thoughts in Holly Spirit as never before.
A lot of mature saints in many denominations agree, that we are witnessing something so much important what had never before place.
When we read about horses do not miss, that this is sudden event in time or can be short period.
Another interpretation is that it was RCC, using power, conquering nations in the name of false Christ. Why not...
But this way we have to reject chronology, because we had wars before Christ and after His resurection. So... Rather not.
But what You will say, If I say, that what we observe now is pressing nations in "white glove"?
Do You have such a saying? On one hand we fell pressure of some power, our countries authorities. But this is not war yet.
So general impression expressed in colors could be "white". Like, nothing happened! But is happening!
So I think, white horse can be now.
But I will study more.
For now I noticed one more thing, but this is just beginning. Not clear.
Fifth seal jumps to hades with saints overcomers crying to God. After fifth is come back to earth and sixth brings changes with sky and sea.
No time now but I start to sink in this book.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Robert

This interpretation comes from WL.

You don´t even know what WL said. No, that interpretation did not come from him.....

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Raptor

You don´t even know what WL said. No, that interpretation did not come from him.....

Correct. See the opening post, Robert.

Nell.

[Nell]

All--

ONE: Before we get lost in the weeds, and start going 'round and 'round in circles, I think it's helpful to determine where we are in this discussion. That is, if we stopped here, would we have covered Revelation 6?

IMHO, this is the most helpful explanation for any perceived discrepancy of thought in whether the pertinent prophecies were fulfilled from the beginning, or are yet to be fulfilled:

• "In fact, virtually every prophecy in the Bible has a near-view and a far-view. A prophesy may be fulfilled in the lifetime of the prophet, but it would also be fulfilled again centuries later, usually near the first or second coming of Jesus."
  
• Next: Events of the past, as well as current events, can foreshadow the fulfillment of prophecies. For example, the mark of the beast.
• Are the "known" speculations about the four horses covered?
  

What do you think? What's missing?

TWO: To add perspective (which I should have added in my OP), when did all this start? Where did it come from? Why did the Revelation need to be written...to clean things up?

I think it all began here:

Gen. 3:14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it (the seed of woman...Jesus) shall bruise thy head, (the final judgment of the serpent (the Devil) and thou shalt bruise his heel (the death of Jesus on the cross actually was judgment of sin and Satan).

The curse on the serpent, pronounced in Genesis 3:14, and the enmity between the serpent (and its seed) and the woman and her seed (Jesus and his brothers...us v. 15) continues to this day. The serpent is still eatin’ dirt. This is where sin began. This is also when the judgment on the serpent, later referred to as the Devil, this is when the judgment began. The Devil met his end when Jesus died on the cross to take away our sins...which began in Gen. 3. This sentence has not yet been carried out. The book of the Revelation tells us many things about the execution of that sentence of enmity between the woman (seed of woman) and the brusing of the Serpent/Devil.

THREE: We have lost a valuable voice due to snarking, sniping, and mockery. We need to clean that up.

Nell

[Robert]

Nell
1.
"Arguably the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ began much earlier, as far back as Genesis 3:15 (15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.). in the Old Testament. That is, much earlier than “immediately after” his crucifixion, his death, and his resurrection."(...)

2.
It seems to me that the gospel of Jesus Christ cannot, should not, be separated from the person of Jesus Christ.(...)
3.
2. Does the white horse conclusively represent the gospel as Lee believed?"

Robert

Ok. I based on short footnotes in Recovery Bible. I was right and You was right.

Ad. Doubtfully stretched theory. Prophecy is one thing and gospel is another.

Col 1:26
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Eph 1:9
making known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he purposed in him
1:10
unto a dispensation of the fulness of the times, to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, [I say,]



That was MYSTERY not GOSPEL.
The same now we struggle with prophecy which seems to be secret to us for a while.
So we have to keep terms and time line.
Col 2:15
And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Rev 5:5
And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Yes, he already prevailed Satan. Remeber, if in Gen 3.14 He was mentioned, that means that God already seen it in Future which He is over, above and through.
So, there is time line, where Satan will be terminated, but also eternity in which Jesus is ruling.
So, yes, in time line from our perspective, gospel started from His resurrection, and at that time He exposed Satan who could not overcome God.
Another thing is:
Rev 1:3
Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

We should see clearly here, that this is prophecy about future. Not desription of world's history.
WL went too far in many areas and in many interpretations. If he dissappointed some... well. Do not trust man...
Bible is self explaining.
I did not put all puzzles together, but what we can do is to reject obvious mistakes with white horse and gospel.

Ad 2
As I posted before:
What Christ and gospel has to do with white horse in ch.6?
That was WL way of concluding trap.
Ad 3
For me -not.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Nell

All--

ONE: Before we get lost in the weeds, and start going 'round and 'round in circles, I think it's helpful to determine where we are in this discussion. That is, if we stopped here, would we have covered Revelation 6?
Nell

To be precise thread is about four horses.
Chapter 6 is about seven seals.
Many teachers and preachers touch this book now. Especially chapter 6.
I'm involved too in that subject thanks to this thread.
So If You want to extend a little to seals matter. I am ok.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Robert

To be precise thread is about four horses.
Chapter 6 is about seven seals.
Many teachers and preachers touch this book now. Especially chapter 6.
I'm involved too in that subject thanks to this thread.
So If You want to extend a little to seals matter. I am ok.

To be precise, the topic is about Revelation 6 - The Four Horses. If you could just please reply to this:

ONE: Before we get lost in the weeds, and start going 'round and 'round in circles, I think it's helpful to determine where we are in this discussion. That is, if we stopped here, would we have covered Revelation 6?

IMHO, this is the most helpful explanation for any perceived discrepancy of thought in whether the pertinent prophecies were fulfilled from the beginning, or are yet to be fulfilled:
"In fact, virtually every prophecy in the Bible has a near-view and a far-view. A prophesy may be fulfilled in the lifetime of the prophet, but it would also be fulfilled again centuries later, usually near the first or second coming of Jesus."
Next: Events of the past, as well as current events, can foreshadow the fulfillment of prophecies. For example, the mark of the beast.
Are the "known" speculations about the four horses covered?
What do you think? What's missing?

That would be sufficient. Keep it short. Yes or No. Maybe a sentence or 2.

I’m looking for feedback from the other members too before continuing.

Nell

[Timotheist]

Originally Posted by Nell

THREE: We have lost a valuable voice due to snarking, sniping, and mockery. We need to clean that up.

Nell

I saw this and decided to give this one more try. I love this subject because I had some ‘a-ha’ moments last year that cleared up a lot of questions for me:


1: What do the four colors signify?

2: What do the horses in Zechariah do, and how does their function relate to the 4 seals?

3: When were or will they be opened? What does it mean that the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world?

4: And the biggie question: Since the four seals are introduced to John by each of the four living creatures, what do the four faces represent and how are they tied to each of the four horsemen?

I have researched this to the point where I can provide a fairly coherent explanation that leaves me fairly convinced that I am on the right track. I will spend some time writing it up as a short article and hope to post it soon.

In the meantime, I would like to read your thoughts on these questions, the last one in particular.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Timotheist

I saw this and decided to give this one more try.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Timotheist

I saw this and decided to give this one more try. I love this subject because I had some ‘a-ha’ moments last year that cleared up a lot of questions for me:


1: What do the four colors signify?

2: What do the horses in Zechariah do, and how does their function relate to the 4 seals?

Thank you.

3: When were or will they be opened? What does it mean that the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world?

Open the seals: Something unverified but should be kept in mind, the belief that "In fact, virtually every prophecy in the Bible has a near-view and a far-view. A prophesy may be fulfilled in the lifetime of the prophet, but it would also be fulfilled again centuries later, usually near the first or second coming of Jesus."

The foundation of the world:
John 17:24 - "loved me before the foundation of the world."
Ephesians 1:4 - "chosen us in him before the foundation of the world "
1 Peter 1:20 - "foreordained before the foundation of the world"
Revelation 13:8 - Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

"Before the foundation" vs. "from the foundation". More questions :-(.
This may link to the "time" vs. "eternity" question. In eternity there is no "before" or "after", now we see the term "from the foundation". What does that mean related to "before". (I hope I'm making sense here.)

"Before" and "after" only occur in "time". This would seemingly sync with the verse in 2 Peter 3:8, "a day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day." The context is pretty interesting, too.

"Before the foundation of the world" ... seems to be in eternity?

2 Peter 3:3-8 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

4: And the biggie question: Since the four seals are introduced to John by each of the four living creatures, what do the four faces represent and how are they tied to each of the four horsemen?

I have researched this to the point where I can provide a fairly coherent explanation that leaves me fairly convinced that I am on the right track. I will spend some time writing it up as a short article and hope to post it soon.

In the meantime, I would like to read your thoughts on these questions, the last one in particular.

Ohio...chime in anytime. Zezima?

Nell

[Timotheist]

Originally Posted by Nell

THREE: We have lost a valuable voice due to snarking, sniping, and mockery. We need to clean that up.

Nell

I saw this and decided to give this one more try. I love this subject because I had some ‘a-ha’ moments last year that cleared up a lot of questions for me:


1: What do the four colors signify?

2: What do the horses in Zechariah do, and how does their function relate to the 4 seals?

3: When were or will they be opened? What does it mean that the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world?

4: And the biggie question: Since the four seals are introduced to John by each of the four living creatures, what do the four faces represent and how are they tied to each of the four horsemen?

I have researched this to the point where I can provide a fairly coherent explanation that leaves me fairly convinced that I am on the right track. I will spend some time writing it up as a short article and hope to post it soon.

In the meantime, I would like to read your thoughts on these questions, the last one in particular.