1000 Years Discipline

[Timotheist]

Originally Posted by Raptor

This is what the Spirit clearly and explicitly states in Revelation 2 and 3 that will happen to those believers who do not repent, who are not victorious. (Grammar changed to reflect negative consequence

But if you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. If you do not overcome, I will not grant you the right to eat from the tree of life in the Paradise of God.

If you are not faithful even unto death, I will not give you the crown of life.

I will come to you shortly and wage war against you with the sword of My mouth. If you do not overcome, I will not give you the hidden manna. I will not give you a white stone inscribed with a new name.

Behold, I will cast her onto a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her will suffer great tribulation. Then I will strike her children dead, and all the churches will know that I am the One who searches minds and hearts, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. If you do not overcome and continue in My work until the end, I will not give you authority over the nations.

I will come like a thief, and you will not know the hour when I will come upon you. Some of you are not worthy, so you will not walk with Me in white. Like them, he who does not overcome will not be dressed in white, and I will blot out your name from the Book of Life, and will not confess your name before My Father and His angels.

Because you have not kept My command to persevere, I will not keep you from the hour of testing that is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. If you do not overcome I will not make you a pillar in the temple of My God, I will not write on you the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God (the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from My God), and My new name.

I am about to vomit you out of My mouth! I will not come in and dine with you, and you with Me. If you do not overcome, I will not grant you the right to sit with Me on My throne.

Good stuff, Raptor. I am gonna steal this idea.

Although you left one out: “If you do not overcome, you will be hurt by the second death”

[Raptor]

Reward and discipline at the Lord´s coming back with His Kingdom:

Another parable clearly showing us that Chrsit, the King, will come back to establish His kingdom and reward the labor of His good and faithful servants with authority, reigning over cities. Yet the servant that did not labor faithfully will be called wicked and even what he has will be taken away from him. They are all believers: they are all called servants and the Lord would not entrust His business to unbelievers and in addition they all call Him Master.

A man of noble birth went to a distant country to lay claim to his kingship and then return. 13Beforehand, he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas. ‘Conduct business with this until I return,’ he said.

14But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, ‘We do not want this man to rule over us.’
When he returned from procuring his kingship, he summoned the servants to whom he had given the money, to find out what each one had earned.

16The first servant came forward and said, ‘Master, your mina has produced ten more minas.’

17His master replied, ‘Well done, good servant! Because you have been faithful in a very small matter, you shall have authority over ten cities.’

18The second servant came and said, ‘Master, your mina has made five minas.’

19And to this one he said, ‘You shall have authority over five cities.’

20Then another servant came and said, ‘Master, here is your mina, which I have laid away in a piece of cloth. 21For I was afraid of you, because you are a harsh man. You withdraw what you did not deposit and reap what you did not sow.’

22His master replied, ‘You wicked servant, I will judge you by your own words. So you knew that I am a harsh man, withdrawing what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow? 23Why then did you not deposit my money in the bank, and upon my return I could have collected it with interest?’

Then he told those standing by, ‘Take the mina from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’

25‘Master,’ they said, ‘he already has ten!’

26He replied, ‘I tell you that everyone who has will be given more; but the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. Luke 9:12-26.

[Zezima]

None of these verses say anything about born again Christians being cast into 1,000 years of darkness to experience separation from God in order to be transformed more because they underperformed in life by not gaining enough Christ.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Zezima

None of these verses say anything about born again Christians being cast into 1,000 years of darkness to experience separation from God in order to be transformed more because they underperformed in life by not gaining enough Christ.

I agree . . . has this not been established in this thread (and the numerous other times it's been discussed on this forum)? At least in my mind it is, as there are no clear references to 1000 years in outer darkness for believers to get transformed, etc.

Raptor - are you agreeing or disagreeing?

[UntoHim]

They can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that Raptor and Timothiest are trying establish that "born again Christians being cast into 1,000 years of darkness to experience separation from God in order to be transformed more because they underperformed in life by not gaining enough Christ." I think they are trying to establish, or confirm as it were, that the Millennial Kingdom will be a time of punishment (discipline) for some believers and a time of reward for others. I think this teaching has a strong biblical basis, but to be sure, it was twisted and corrupted Nee, Lee and quite a number of others.

I think gr8ful really hit the nail on the head on the 2nd post of the thread:

Originally Posted by gr8ful

On the non-doctrinal side, there's how the teaching of the 1000 Years Reward / Punishment is used to instill fear of deviating from the "Vision," which just happens to be presented by one man, or now, one committee of men (the Blended Brothers). Fearing that we'll miss the reward or suffer 1000 of punishment if we dare go against "God's Deputy Authority" or consider attending a different church....

Which was kind of my point here:

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Many of our dear brothers and sisters in the Local Church of Witness Lee have been blinded. They have been deceived into believing that the kingdom that Witness Lee built is the kingdom of God. They have been deceived into believing that their reward and punishment will be based upon the person and work of a mere man and his so-called ministry of the age.

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[Timotheist]

1000 years is not such a long time.

The rich man has been in torment in Sheol for more than 2000 years, yet he will still be saved.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Timotheist

1000 years is not such a long time.

The rich man has been in torment in Sheol for more than 2000 years, yet he will still be saved.

What evidence or verse would cause you to think that? I thought that huge chasm was uncrossable.

[Paul Vusik]

Originally Posted by I tell the truth

And one woman that spoke afterwards at the mic was so bothered that her family hasn't come into the church.

That women should actually be glad that her family isn’t willing to sacrifice themselves and their loved ones on the altar to this “spirit of recovery”. She should thank God that they still have some discernment and ability to maybe see some things that she no longer can.

Because I tell you what, when I was there, I was the same way. But thanks be to God Almighty, that he protected my siblings and my mother from experiencing this counterfeit, even though in my mind I had it the other way.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Paul Vusik

That women should actually be glad that her family isn’t willing to sacrifice themselves and their loved ones on the altar to this “spirit of recovery”. She should thank God that they still have some discernment and ability to maybe see some things that she no longer can.

Because I tell you what, when I was there, I was the same way. But thanks be to God Almighty, that he protected my siblings and my mother from experiencing this counterfeit, even though in my mind I had it the other way.

I felt the same way at one point. I was brought under condemnation at the 2 Corinthians training for not being a good “salesman” bringing all my family into the Recovery.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

there are no clear references to 1000 years in outer darkness , etc.

Raptor - are you agreeing or disagreeing?

I see a strong possibility that not inheriting the kingdom as a reward could be a state that lasts 1,000 years for some, yes (maybe me?). There is scriptural ground to conclude that, yes. I have not seen verses that say that, specifically, exactly like that, no.

[Timotheist]

Raptor sums it up well.

The duration of the kingdom being 1000 years is unique to Revelation.

Matthew, et. al., refer several times to rewards and punishment, but NEVER mentions the duration.

I personally believe that the punishment is proportional to the crime (you will not come out of prison until you have paid the last cent). So not all will be out for the entire 1000 years.

But do I have "proof" of that belief? no

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Timotheist

The duration of the kingdom being 1000 years is unique to Revelation.

The dispensationalist view takes this 1000 years as literal. The amillennialism view looks at it allegorically, meaning they don't think the 1000 years is a literal amount of time and is more symbolic (e.g., the Lamb of God not being an actual lamb).

I didn't realize lately that the views I hold on this are strongly dispensational premillennialism, as that's almost the only view I'd been exposed to in the LC and from other sources. But lately, a few in my circle have expressed an amillennialism viewpoint, so this has made me aware that there's other ideas on this. According to them, it was first promoted by JN Darby around 150 years ago, and prior to that, amillennialism was more prevalent (since Augustine). Does that mean that the teaching of premillennialism (Christ returns prior to a 1000 year reign) wasn't taught at all prior to Darby?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Timotheist

Raptor sums it up well.

The duration of the kingdom being 1000 years is unique to Revelation.

Matthew, et. al., refer several times to rewards and punishment, but NEVER mentions the duration.

I personally believe that the punishment is proportional to the crime (you will not come out of prison until you have paid the last cent). So not all will be out for the entire 1000 years.

But do I have "proof" of that belief? no

I agree with this. The principle of growing plants ripening supports this, iow first fruits, harvest, gleanings, etc. Not all mature at the same time.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Timotheist

Good stuff, Raptor. I am gonna steal this idea.
Although you left one out: “If you do not overcome, you will be hurt by the second death”

You´re right, I missed that one. I think there is a thick veil and thick ear plugs among a great number of believers causing them to conclude that nothing "bad" can happen to them before God because they think, "I am saved" or "I am going to heaven" or "all my sins have been forgiven." That´s why the Spirit appeals seven times to the churches, to the believers, emphasizing the need to "hear" to understand.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Raptor

You´re right, I missed that one. I think there is a thick veil and thick ear plugs among a great number of believers causing them to conclude that nothing "bad" can happen to them before God because they think, "I am saved" or "I am going to heaven" or "all my sins have been forgiven." That´s why the Spirit appeals seven times to the churches, to the believers, emphasizing the need to "hear" to understand.

Yes, there is something to overcome, good fruit to be produced, a race to win, and a good fight to fight. And there will be rewards and accountability for what we have done in this life with this amazing grace we've been given in Christ!

"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who operates in you." (Phil 2:12)

Christ has been "installed" in our deepest part, but we still must exercise our will to agree, trust and cooperate with His operation in us. Truly we only need to be faithful in the few things He has given each of us, and He will thereby mature us and cause a good increase according to His life in us.