No Place Like Hell

[manna-man]

If you were to find out that manna-man from before he started his membership here at LCD Tormented people in his basement even until this day, would this change your opinion on him?
Would you accept an invitation to dine with him at his home?
Crazy thought huh?
Yet some are prepared and have obviously accepted these realities of their doctrine even knowing that the RCC Et al. have had an influence on what we actually believe.
There's a parallel here, do you see it?
It's no wonder people fear or even hate God. With a rep like this who wouldn't? 😆
It's either kumbaya or else!

This kind of presentation of God is blasphemous beyond measure and needs to be dealt with. Repentance is in order.
But first an understanding on how we got here is needed.
I believe God is watching and interested in seeing exactly what it is we are willing to accept or not....

Peace like a river...

[zeek]

Originally Posted by manna-man

If you were to find out that manna-man from before he started his membership here at LCD Tormented people in his basement even until this day, would this change your opinion on him?
Would you accept an invitation to dine with him at his home?
Crazy thought huh?
Yet some are prepared and have obviously accepted these realities of their doctrine even knowing that the RCC Et al. have had an influence on what we actually believe.
There's a parallel here, do you see it?
It's no wonder people fear or even hate God. With a rep like this who wouldn't? ��
It's either kumbaya or else!

This kind of presentation of God is blasphemous beyond measure and needs to be dealt with. Repentance is in order.
But first an understanding on how we got here is needed.
I believe God is watching and interested in seeing exactly what it is we are willing to accept or not....

Peace like a river...

I'm glad to see you pursuing Christian Universalism, manna man. It speaks of your heart.

[manna-man]

Originally Posted by zeek

I'm glad to see you pursuing Christian Universalism, manna man. It speaks of your heart.

LOL!
Zeek, your wisdom has bewitched you!��<smiles and giggles...

Seriously though.

Universalism sounds good and I wish it were so but I'm not convinced that it is correct because of the gospel of Christ that persuades me to take heed.

Heed of what?

The dangers of ignoring the message of sin and death and reconciliation/Propitiation. I believe that Ezekiel 18 spells it out quite clearly.
Those who sin and reject propitiation/righteousness "in" Christ shall unfortunately die. (Lose the reward to live in eternity unhindered by time.) And only God knows what He has prepared for us.��

I've grown to appreciate you brother. Are you in Ft. LAUD? If so pm me so we can meet...
If not PM me anyways.��

I think it's obvious I don't believe in eternal torment. I will expound on that in the fullness of time as The Lord leads. I'm hoping others will expound on this as this is one of the few venues I frequent and do appreciate the talent that is here even though I don't always agree with the finger pointing as we all are not perfected yet. I've been considering lately the tares and the wheat.....

Shalom.

[Timotheist]

I tend to agree with manna-man: After this world is swept away, at the final judgement, those humans who are judged will experience the second death in its completeness, having had the soul destroyed in Gehenna.

Hades, described in Luke as a fiery place of torment for the rich man, is TEMPORARY. The rich man will leave Hades and face formal judgement at his resurrection. Being a Jew, he will be saved, but "so as through fire".

Likewise, those of us who do not overcome will be "hurt by the second death".

So I consider Hades as being a cleansing fire for the slacking believers, burning away the chaff of our souls, but the soul remains.

After the resurrection, those of us believers who will be judged will be thrown into the pit, the deepest part of Hades. Again, it will be a temporary punishment.

As has been pointed out already, the LOF was prepared for the Devil and his angels. I surmise that these eternal beings cannot be killed, so they will indeed suffer everlasting torment.

But humanity, as manna-man states, will be annihilated by the LOF.

[zeek]

Eschatology is like a Rorschach test that reveals the heart.

[manna-man]

Originally Posted by zeek

Eschatology is like a Rorschach test that reveals the heart.

Great point Zeek!

What heart would accept brutal eternal torture?
Even for angels.
They were created too...
Sickening even considering Gods anger would be so unquenchable!
IMHO...That's the definition of being out of control.
NOWHERE in scripture do we learn that this is a characteristic of God.

[UntoHim]

My friend manna-man,
Could you please explain to us, as clearly and succinctly as you have posted your views about hell, what was the purpose of the cross? What was the actual purpose of the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I would love to hear the same from our longtime friend zeek, but if he could be so kind as to wait for an answer from manna-man, that would be great.
-

[zeek]

Originally Posted by manna-man

LOL!
Zeek, your wisdom has bewitched you!��<smiles and giggles...

Seriously though.

Universalism sounds good and I wish it were so but I'm not convinced that it is correct because of the gospel of Christ that persuades me to take heed.

Heed of what?

The dangers of ignoring the message of sin and death and reconciliation/Propitiation. I believe that Ezekiel 18 spells it out quite clearly.
Those who sin and reject propitiation/righteousness "in" Christ shall unfortunately die. (Lose the reward to live in eternity unhindered by time.) And only God knows what He has prepared for us.��

I've grown to appreciate you brother. Are you in Ft. LAUD? If so pm me so we can meet...
If not PM me anyways.��

I think it's obvious I don't believe in eternal torment. I will expound on that in the fullness of time as The Lord leads. I'm hoping others will expound on this as this is one of the few venues I frequent and do appreciate the talent that is here even though I don't always agree with the finger pointing as we all are not perfected yet. I've been considering lately the tares and the wheat.....

Shalom.

Okay. How do you define universalism and how does what you believe differ from it?

[manna-man]

Originally Posted by zeek

Okay. How do you define universalism and how does what you believe differ from it?

Universalists believe God sent Jesus but that Jesus wasn't divine. They believe God will save all humans and reject that they would be subjected to damnation.

They don't believe in the trinity.

There is a gulf between what they believe and what I believe.

First of all, I believe Jesus was sent by God. I also believe He is God. Sounds to me they don't believe that. Although I'd have to agree with them about the feeble word trinity. A word such as that creates many snares and ammo for those who created it. Who are they?
The creedal Christians?
Who are they? I think we'd all agree they were the Pharisees.
The blended Judiasers...
The blind Jesus spoke of.

Nevertheless, they are anti-Christ (Universalists) and wave off judgment and dismiss the entire gospel message.

They're against eternal torment or consequences and believe somehow God will work it all out regardless of all the warnings and woes described of in the scriptures.

They preach another Jesus I do not recognize...Another message I do not see in the sciptures.

If what they believe was true, what is God waiting for?

Ultimately, I believe he's waiting because He is merciful and as the scriptures declare he wills not that any would perish.

I also believe He is watching to see just how much we will accept or reject. To see how deep we want to be.

Peace

[zeek]

Originally Posted by manna-man

Universalists believe God sent Jesus but that Jesus wasn't divine. They believe God will save all humans and reject that they would be subjected to damnation.

They don't believe in the trinity.

There is a gulf between what they believe and what I believe.

First of all, I believe Jesus was sent by God. I also believe He is God. Sounds to me they don't believe that. Although I'd have to agree with them about the feeble word trinity. A word such as that creates many snares and ammo for those who created it. Who are they?
The creedal Christians?
Who are they? I think we'd all agree they were the Pharisees.
The blended Judiasers...
The blind Jesus spoke of.

Nevertheless, they are anti-Christ (Universalists) and wave off judgment and dismiss the entire gospel message.

They're against eternal torment or consequences and believe somehow God will work it all out regardless of all the warnings and woes described of in the scriptures.

They preach another Jesus I do not recognize...Another message I do not see in the sciptures.

If what they believe was true, what is God waiting for?

Ultimately, I believe he's waiting because He is merciful and as the scriptures declare he wills not that any would perish.

I also believe He is watching to see just how much we will accept or reject. To see how deep we want to be.

Peace

I think you are referring to the Unitarian Universalists. There are plenty of universalist trinitarians who believe Jesus is God. Here is an example of an Evangelical Universalist who thinks much like you do. https://www.amazon.com/Evangelical-U.../dp/1620322390

[manna-man]

Originally Posted by zeek

I think you are referring to the Unitarian Universalists. There are plenty of universalist trinitarians who believe Jesus is God. Here is an example of an Evangelical Universalist who thinks much like you do. https://www.amazon.com/Evangelical-U.../dp/1620322390

Nah, that's ok.

As stated earlier, my sole point was to expose the false doctrine of eternal torment not to start a Unitarian Discussion Group.

Maybe you're attempting to nurture me further down the rabbit hole or don't believe I've considered everything. Perhaps you think my thoughts are juvenile. I don't know and I'm not offended. Please expound on your motives here.
I appreciate your input and care about what you're thinking. Just wondering what's in there....