Ronnie Chan Introducing Vladimir Putin

[Gubei]

Originally Posted by Nell

You might consider asking RChen your questions face-to-face. That may not be possible for you, but it would be appropriate.

Nell

Nell, according to my observations, it would be their hypocirty than loving money itself that has
caused problems. Ronnie Chan is quite famous among Asian churches than those in the West, because he has "ministered" mostly in Asian countries, while doing business. I guess there would have been no time when he visited Korea except for business trip. He seemed to be proud of his dual jobs (both minster and business man), but I can say that is the root of problem.

To appease your possible curiosity, I will tell you the story I experienced.

He was suffering from jet lag on the day he was supposed to speak the word for the responsible brothers in Korea, meaning physically it was impossible to minister Christ for Korean brothers, but some leading brothers in Korea and he just pushed for the meeting. Terribley, he dropped off to sleep during the meeting, and naturally his speaking was not appropriate. The brother who was in charge of presiding the meeting asked the audience if there is any questions to Ronnie Chan, but no brother dared to ask question, so I volunteered to ask a simple question to wrap up the humdrum meeting ASAP. then Ronnie gave us an unacceptable answer(obviously out of haziness from lack of sleep). Upon listening to his answer, I pointed out that I cannot accept his answer simply because the answer was off the chart and inappropriate. Which was followed by sudden verbal attacks to me from some leading Korean brothers, they were so angry at me like who are you dare to be defiant and ask back to "the brother", the example of both sucessful business man and minister of the word in the LC. I was about 25+ years of church life at that time, with some doubts about unbiblical practices of the LC, and this incident made me stop my churh life in Korea.

I've heard Ronnie Chan just left Korea the next day. If he was a real minister of Christ, would he have just left without any effort to solve the problem he caused? In the NT, we have seen a lot of examples of apostles who really cared for local churches day and night, but Ronnie Chan's ministering is just kind of his "hobby" to mimick the speaking of WN or WL, traveling all over the world doing his own some trillion dollars business.
In short, I think I do not need to contact Ronnie for face to face meeting. His leaving Korea just the next day even without any apolozing word by phone or email or message tell us a lot of things.


The story does not stop at this point. The above mentioned experience is just a tip of iceberg. The more serious things have transpired in Korea, partly (if not mostly) due to this kind of bad examples of doing business in the church life. I just want to pause here for now. The story is too shocking to be true, and I'm not sure if or not it is okay to tell you the whole part in this open forum.

[WitnessALot]

Originally Posted by Gubei

Nell, according to my observations, it would be their hypocirty than loving money itself that has
caused problems. Ronnie Chan is quite famous among Asian churches than those in the West, because he has "ministered" mostly in Asian countries, while doing business. I guess there would have been no time when he visited Korea except for business trip. He seemed to be proud of his dual jobs (both minster and business man), but I can say that is the root of problem.

Hello Gubei, I just want to say thanks for share your story. I know it's hard to talk about. But remember that Lord's Recovery damaged so many people. If people know the truth, it can set them free. If people know about Ronnie Chan mixing up his business with the churches in Korea, then they can begin to see the real situation. But if we are silent, then people cannot know, and they continue to suffer.

Maybe sometime you can feel comfortable to share more of your story. (I sent you a private message.)

[Gubei]

WitnessAlot, I replied to your PM. All things considered, I still feel my full story should be restricted within person to person conversation, but the following is excerpt as much as I feel comfortable of what has transpired in South Korea.

The Churches of South Korea have been under two distinguishable leadership camps almost from its inception. One was anti-Witness Lee camp, the other was pro-Witness Lee camp. The context of this unfortunate beginning was due to the fact that Br. Kown, who brought the Lord's Recovery to South Korea from Taiwan was a kind of dissent from Witness Lee. It is known that Br. Kown was Korean but participated in Chinese army during the 2nd world war, ending up settling in Taiwan and he found the Lord's Recovery there.(I heard that most of Taiwanese saints thought Br. Kown was Chinese because his Chinese speaking accent was almost perfect) However, He returned to South Korea without fellowship with the leadership in Taiwan, and began his own ministry in South Korea. Later during 80's, some saints found the ministry of Witness Lee in the States, and they requested opening up of the door for the mutual fellowship with Churches in the States and LSM but the founding brothers of South Korea at that time refused the request (Br. Kown already passed away, so the leading brothers were Br. Kown's 2nd generation brothers with anti-Witness Lee sentiment), and there was serious division and criticism among each camps. To sum up, two camps reached so called "oneness" with opening up for Churches in the States and LSM agreed upon, but rivalry and hostility among each camps lasted. To make long story short, a serving brother under pro-Witness Lee camp started an unreasonable(where, "unreasonable" is quite euphemistic choice of word by me) business of about 1 billion dollars. Then the pro-witness Lee camp brothers jumped into the business in person, set up a legal business corporation, holding several business pitching ceremonies in the training center, introducing the brothers as "business men" to attendees for fund-raising. As usual, their pretext was for the furtherance of gospel. They claimed they would use the fanicial gain through the business for the Lord. However,finally, the business turned out to be a terrible failure, losing most of fund raised from saints and non-believers, the initiating brother was litigated for the crime of fraud. Then, the leading brother of pro-Witness camp abruptly changed his position and began to criticize the initiating brother with his excuse that he himself was a kind of victim rather than perpetrator. The story thus far is all about Korean brothers, but the more serious part is what and from when the leadership brothers in the States and Taiwan know of this unreasonable business, and how they responded after the business failure confirmed and a really big, tsunami turmoil transpired in South Korea in the wake of that failure.I guess saying this much is appropriated for now. Thanks for listening.

[TLFisher]

Gubei, your post has the same flavor I identify with Daystar and Linko. Still 35+ years later no one knows or no one is speaking what happened to the money localities donated for the Linko project.

[Gubei]

Originally Posted by TLFisher

Gubei, your post has the same flavor I identify with Daystar and Linko. Still 35+ years later no one knows or no one is speaking what happened to the money localities donated for the Linko project.

In this case, saints did not donate but invest for gain, which would be difference, but in essence, the principle is the same. for the furtherance of the gospel.

The initiator brother has been saying that he has discussed with leadership brothrs in LSM about his business. The more serious part is as follows. Some metropolitan Seoul area brothers flied to Taiwan to solve the turmoil caused by the business failure, while hoping that the leading brothers in Taipei(in every time there is difficulty in South Korea, they would fly to Taipei for new direction from Taiwanese leading brothers) would announce that the brothers involved in the business be officially judged guilty from the standpoint of high level of morality in the Lord's Recovery. But, the result was exact opposite. The leading brothers in Taipei scolded those appealing brothers, citing lack of the spirit of forgiveness etc. It is needless to say that those appealing brothers was so shocked. My question is this. Would the leading brothers of Taipie have discussed this matter with LSM borthers before Korean brothers arrived? If so, the result would be as intended from the States?

Now, the leading brother of pro-Witness camp, who was one of integral man of the failed business, survived the turmoil, and re-establised himself as the prominent leading brother of South Korea. And then, the appealing brothers have been put aside gradually year after year.

Holistically speaking, I'm afraid there have been so called internal politics surrounding this turmoil, rather than pure following the principle of the Bible. So sad. I believe real courage from the Lord is to confess wrongdoings to public as needed, of course followed by appropriate correction. Just hiding the truth citing "for the Lord" is another hypocricy in disguise. Even Catholic, LC criticilzes so much as spiritual harlot, has made multiple apologies for their historical wrongdoings, but I have never seen LC apologizing. This is because they think they are perfect, which is a variation of infalliblity notion, no matter how they outwardly deny it.

BTW, TLFisher, I heared of Dayster, but not Linko. Any thread about it for me to read for comparsion?

[Ohio]

Thread on the Linko scam

Linko search results by post

See post #8 of this great thread

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Thread on the Linko scam

Linko search results by post

See post #8 of this great thread

Thanks for these links, Ohio. These are reminders of the "bad old days", in which we were deceived into believing they were good. I.e. calling evil good and good evil. These are truly doctrines of demons described in I Timothy:

1 Timothy 4 Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Over the years there have been so many naieve requests on this forum that we just "let it go" and "cover the brothers", or, that we "depart from the faith".

Our answer is still no.

Nell

[WitnessALot]

Originally Posted by Gubei

WitnessAlot, I replied to your PM. All things considered, I still feel my full story should be restricted within person to person conversation, but the following is excerpt as much as I feel comfortable of what has transpired in South Korea.

Hi Gubei, thank you for sharing this. I did not get your PM. Maybe you hit "Preview Message" but not "Submit Message"?

It's really interesting about what happened in South Korea. I agree with TLFisher, it sounds so similar to Daystar and Linko. Did this event in South Korea also occurred in the 80s?

[Gubei]

Originally Posted by WitnessALot

Hi Gubei, thank you for sharing this. I did not get your PM. Maybe you hit "Preview Message" but not "Submit Message"?

It's really interesting about what happened in South Korea. I agree with TLFisher, it sounds so similar to Daystar and Linko. Did this event in South Korea also occurred in the 80s?

I re-PMed to you just ago. Just in case you will not receive my reply (due to whatever reasons, technicall or my mis-handling), my email of anoymous purpose is gaoyuanshanzi@gmail.com. You can reach me via this email.

Gubei

[Gubei]

Originally Posted by WitnessALot

It's really interesting about what happened in South Korea. I agree with TLFisher, it sounds so similar to Daystar and Linko. Did this event in South Korea also occurred in the 80s?

It happend in Korea early 2000.

Originally Posted by Gubei

Nell, according to my observations, it would be their hypocirty than loving money itself that has
caused problems. Ronnie Chan is quite famous among Asian churches than those in the West, because he has "ministered" mostly in Asian countries, while doing business. I guess there would have been no time when he visited Korea except for business trip. He seemed to be proud of his dual jobs (both minster and business man), but I can say that is the root of problem. Ronnie Chan's ministering is just kind of his "hobby" to mimick the speaking of WN or WL, traveling all over the world doing his own some trillion dollars business.
Inum.

Does anybody know by any chance whether or not this distinguished 'brother' has ever passed through the Full Time Training? (or is it his billions that qualify him to speak at conferences?)