Local Church Discussions  

Go Back   Local Church Discussions > Writings of Former Members > Papers by various

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-09-2023, 05:06 AM   #1
ACuriousFellow
Member
 
ACuriousFellow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2023
Posts: 173
Default Re: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

Anyone ever wonder what would happen if Jo Casteel's letter was mysteriously disseminated on all the college campuses that TLR operates in?
__________________
A Curious Fellow
ACuriousFellow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2023, 07:11 AM   #2
Ohio
Member
 
Ohio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 13,693
Default Re: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow View Post
Anyone ever wonder what would happen if Jo Casteel's letter was mysteriously disseminated on all the college campuses that TLR operates in?
That exposing letter and DCP’s retaliation became so toxic that her husband took his life. So sad. So tragic. How many lives have been destroyed to perpetuate LSM’s deceitful lies!
__________________
Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!.
Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point!
Ohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2023, 03:07 PM   #3
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
That exposing letter and DCP’s retaliation became so toxic that her husband took his life. So sad. So tragic. How many lives have been destroyed to perpetuate LSM’s deceitful lies!
Hi Ohio,
If someone does not like to fellowship and worship in the Lord's recovery, then they are free to leave. Some believers would rather meet in another place where they are more comfortable. To take your own life is ones own responsibility, not a specific group of believers. It is ridiculous to blame anyone other than a mentally confused person. It is sad when a person is so depressed that they take their life, but no one encourages such an action. Obviously a weak, depressed, confused person needs some help and perhaps should seek it professionally. May the Lord have mercy on all the weaker vessels.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2023, 07:45 PM   #4
Trapped
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,523
Default Re: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Hi Ohio,
If someone does not like to fellowship and worship in the Lord's recovery, then they are free to leave. Some believers would rather meet in another place where they are more comfortable. To take your own life is ones own responsibility, not a specific group of believers. It is ridiculous to blame anyone other than a mentally confused person. It is sad when a person is so depressed that they take their life, but no one encourages such an action. Obviously a weak, depressed, confused person needs some help and perhaps should seek it professionally. May the Lord have mercy on all the weaker vessels.
Unregistered,

Welcome. Are you willing to stick around to dialog and actually contend with and answer for what you have written here?

Trapped
Trapped is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2023, 08:28 PM   #5
Ohio
Member
 
Ohio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Greater Ohio
Posts: 13,693
Default Re: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Hi Ohio,
If someone does not like to fellowship and worship in the Lord's recovery, then they are free to leave. Some believers would rather meet in another place where they are more comfortable. To take your own life is ones own responsibility, not a specific group of believers. It is ridiculous to blame anyone other than a mentally confused person. It is sad when a person is so depressed that they take their life, but no one encourages such an action. Obviously a weak, depressed, confused person needs some help and perhaps should seek it professionally. May the Lord have mercy on all the weaker vessels.
You missed (perhaps unintentional?) the reason behind the sister’s letter. Her medical profession DEMANDED that she report abuse. She had no choice. It was demanded by both God (in her conscience) and man (by her medical oaths.). Her husband did his best to support her.

None of us had access to the enormous pressures that weighed on him. We don’t know what private phone calls or correspondence added stress beyond his ability to bear. Where were all the brothers he loved? Since when does brotherly love get tossed in the trash when someone speaks for the Lord in truth?

Many of the Prophets also despaired of life. What the Lord moved in them to share was far more than they could bear. One day all those who protect abusers and sinners will be exposed. “Blessed are those who suffer for righteousness sake.”
__________________
Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!.
Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point!
Ohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2023, 04:23 AM   #6
aron
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Natal Transvaal
Posts: 5,632
Default Re: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio View Post
[Joanna Casteel's] medical profession DEMANDED that she report abuse. She had no choice. It was demanded by both God (in her conscience) and man (by her medical oaths.). Her husband did his best to support her.
(Disclosure: I'm going to use the royal "we", which may or may not relate to others. And my post is rather long and involved).

A theme touched in this letter was the notion that we only make decisions based on what we already know. We can't make choices in an ether, or reach into a vacuum and make something. We can only use the ingredients we're given to create new things. We receive something, we use it, we build something new. Lacking information, we can neither objectively consider our current situation, nor evaluate options going forward.

Joanna Casteel had been raised in the local churches and was fed a constant stream of one-sided information designed to make her a thoughtless and reflexive consumer and promoter of ministry propaganda. She was repeatedly told that only Watchman Nee and Witness Lee had anything worthwhile to say, and even her own thoughts had to be checked against ministry teachings. She was denied the fundamental tools of self-governance.

But onto that monolithic structure, she got exposed to the concept of ethics at University. She saw that it's unethical to ask people to make decisions while deliberately withholding relevant information. She recognized the deceptive recruiting practices of the Living Stream Ministry operatives for what they were. Their dependent relation on Witness Lee is initially hidden: "We're just Christians; we just love Jesus and are open to all Christians", is the opening gambit, until relationships are set. Then, bit by bit, the LSM gets introduced, and other sources of information are systematically discouraged, and submerged.

That recognition of deceptive practices was the slenderest of threads... Jo had been mentally conditioned, including years of immersive "training" at the FTTA, not to trust her own discernment, yet as a professional she was required to exercise discernment. So, something had to change. And that requirement to observe, to note, to discern, and to report, ultimately forced the Casteel family to exit the local church.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casteel letter View Post
I mainly read Nee and Lee as Christian authors my entire life. From time to time I would take a peek at other authors, but considered their teachings too low and part of degraded Christianity. Besides, Brother Lee had done all the work for us and I just needed to get into the riches. Also, I didn’t trust myself to be able to discern what others interpreted about God, so the safest way was to just read Nee and Lee. Some authors like Darby were approved by our group, but I never had time for anyone else as I was on multiple reading schedules of Nee and Lee. I also never considered I had a need for anyone else as I already had the best of the best. Brother Lee had received incredible light and revelation from the Lord and had seen the top vision of God’s economy and the High Peak of the Divine Revelation.
Local church members are told not to trust their own ability to discern. Outside information is quickly explained away, or dismissed outright as not from the ministry and therefore irrelevant. My point here has been that the more information we get, and when we exercise our ability to discern what's valid, the more we can find our way, both individually and together, and create mutually satisfying new environments. So, I've been asking for Chinese-language primary source documents and secondary sources to be translated. In the English-speaking world, we gave ourselves over to something that we knew almost nothing about, and that's still largely unknown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
If someone does not like to fellowship and worship in the Lord's recovery, then they are free to leave.
This breezy "free to leave" comment is contradicted by the testimonies of those who were there. All their lives, they're told about what happened to those who exercised that right to inform oneself, to think, to discern, to choose, and to talk about it. Mistakes and all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casteel letter View Post
From the time I was very young I knew the horrific things that would happen to me if I deviated from this way. As a young person I was told that we would become like Belshazzar in Daniel 4:33 if we went against this way. Belshazzar ate grass like an oxen, grew nails like bird claws, and lost his mind. I knew if you left this way you would come to nothing, become a man of death, and as I read recently in a ministry magazine that I “will even become death” (“The Ministry of the Word,” “The Overcomers,” Living Stream Ministry, Anaheim, CA, 2012, p. 69).

I was terribly afraid of becoming leprous, an ugly and horrific disease. I learned about deputy authority from the time I was a child and that going against anyone in a position of authority was going against the acting God on earth regardless of if they were right or wrong. As an adult, when I had questions about some of our practices, I would whisper about it with my husband behind closed doors while worrying that the ground was going to figuratively open up and swallow me up like those of the rebellion of Korah (Numbers 16). I spent my entire lifetime eaten up with crippling anxiety and severe depression over the questions and feelings I had inwardly.
I'd encourage everyone who's contacted by this group, to get as much information as you can about them, before making commitments based on their pressure. And, I'd encourage everyone who's exited the local church, whether a former church kid, or recruited off campus, to get as much information as possible about what we experienced. Otherwise we'll have trouble processing it, and will end up reflexively pushing it away, but it remains a subconscious force. Only when we bring our experiences to light can we move on. Greg and Joanna Casteel had the moral courage to face the once-forbidden unknown and to exercise their innate capacity to think about the formerly unthinkable. It takes a lot. And it costs a lot.

One of the stalwarts of the current LSM regime is seen urging young people (at the 30 minute mark, here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_ww7m_5BTs )to access a wide variety of reading sources, and to make the effort and trust their capacity to figure things out for themselves. Information gives us choices, that we didn't realize were there.

Here's another one: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/fe...-remarks-chan/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerald Chan
My first advice to you, graduates, is to enrich your lives with ideas, even big ideas. Read, reflect, and ruminate (the new three Rs). Observe and deduce, postulate and verify, look for connections. Be curious, be open-minded, reframe problems rather than just looking for answers, have the courage to differ from conventional wisdom, do not dismiss your intuition. Discuss, debate and discourse with others. Look into history, watch current affairs; study the sacred texts, observe humanity. These are the mental habits conducive to the spontaneous generation of ideas. A life is rich when it is rich with ideas.
How can someone say this openly and publicly on the one hand, and then go back to their own religious group and tell them not to read from a variety of sources, and not to think about what they read, and not to publicly express their thoughts? "Discuss and debate..." when was that ever allowed in a local church? Yet even the NT record shows this freedom to think and speak. Acts 15:7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe..."
__________________
"Freedom is free. It's slavery that's so horribly expensive" - Colonel Templeton, ret., of the 12th Scottish Highlanders, the 'Black Fusiliers'

Last edited by aron; 08-13-2023 at 06:32 AM.
aron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2023, 10:40 PM   #7
Weakvessel
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Cool Re: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Hi Ohio,
If someone does not like to fellowship and worship in the Lord's recovery, then they are free to leave. Some believers would rather meet in another place where they are more comfortable. To take your own life is ones own responsibility, not a specific group of believers. It is ridiculous to blame anyone other than a mentally confused person. It is sad when a person is so depressed that they take their life, but no one encourages such an action. Obviously a weak, depressed, confused person needs some help and perhaps should seek it professionally. May the Lord have mercy on all the weaker vessels.
This is the most infuriating and disgusting kind of post that one can read, especially coming from this church of witness lee. This kind of treatment of people, and total blind way of always blaming someone, rather than looking at the garbage that you all giving people, teaching people, claiming to be truth, is what flies in the face of every one that ever happened to wanted to leave your sect.

Local church is a place if you even consider leaving, you better count the costs. Just know that your decision will cost you everything and everyone you knew for decades, including your family, and in many cases own children/spouses and friends. They destroy your life first, then when you lose your mental ability to continue, they will claim that you are week/confused/depressed/weak vessel. What a fools, and disgraceful ones at that. They will even throw in demon possessed to feel better about themselves! Make my blood boil!

The amount of blood local church has on its hands is plenty enough to be silent and ashamed, but NO, they are out there claiming to be God-men! ��
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2023, 05:39 AM   #8
Nell
Admin/Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,124
Default Re: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Hi Ohio,
If someone does not like to fellowship and worship in the Lord's recovery, then they are free to leave. Some believers would rather meet in another place where they are more comfortable. To take your own life is ones own responsibility, not a specific group of believers. It is ridiculous to blame anyone other than a mentally confused person. It is sad when a person is so depressed that they take their life, but no one encourages such an action. Obviously a weak, depressed, confused person needs some help and perhaps should seek it professionally. May the Lord have mercy on all the weaker vessels.
Thanks, Ohio, for bringing some sanity to this discussion.

IN THEIR OWN WORDS!

And they call this "the Lord's recovery"? Don't blame this on the Lord. If anyone is looking for a reason to get out of that place, here it is...in black and white. Read it a few times (if you can). Is this the kind of person you want to become? Is this even Christian? Is this the voice of the good shepherd who laid down his life for his sheep? Is this what you call being "recovered"? This should help you find the door, or, this should help you to avoid this place like the plague that it is.

Then there's this "May the Lord have mercy on all the weaker vessels." Wow. Spoken like a true Pharisee. Those of us who were there and left know the attitude well. I just never imagined they would say it out loud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weakvessel View Post
This is the most infuriating and disgusting kind of post that one can read, especially coming from this church of witness lee. This kind of treatment of people, and total blind way of always blaming someone, rather than looking at the garbage that you all giving people, teaching people, claiming to be truth, is what flies in the face of every one that ever happened to wanted to leave your sect.

Local church is a place if you even consider leaving, you better count the costs. Just know that your decision will cost you everything and everyone you knew for decades, including your family, and in many cases own children/spouses and friends. They destroy your life first, then when you lose your mental ability to continue, they will claim that you are week/confused/depressed/weak vessel. What a fools, and disgraceful ones at that. They will even throw in demon possessed to feel better about themselves! Make my blood boil!

The amount of blood local church has on its hands is plenty enough to be silent and ashamed, but NO, they are out there claiming to be God-men! ��
Well said.

Nell
Nell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2023, 06:20 AM   #9
ACuriousFellow
Member
 
ACuriousFellow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2023
Posts: 173
Default Re: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Hi Ohio,
If someone does not like to fellowship and worship in the Lord's recovery, then they are free to leave.
Yeah, sure. Raise a kid. Tell 'em that every other denomination is deformed and degraded and that The Lord's Recovery is the only way. Make every effort to hammer that in so that they become terrified of "death" for every thought they have against Witness Lee. Teach them to devalue relationships with other Christians who follow the "low gospel." Now 99% of their deepest relationships are in The Recovery. Then they start finding out all the nasty things that you guys did. They have concerns and want to fix the problem with their fellow saints in The Recovery. What are they told? Some believers would rather meet in another place where they are more comfortable.

"If you do not like it here, you can leave."

Quote:
To take your own life is ones own responsibility, not a specific group of believers. It is ridiculous to blame anyone other than a mentally confused person. It is sad when a person is so depressed that they take their life, but no one encourages such an action. Obviously a weak, depressed, confused person needs some help and perhaps should seek it professionally. May the Lord have mercy on all the weaker vessels.
I would counsel you to read up on some basic psychology. Maybe take a semester with the simplest psychology courses in some community college. That's all it takes. Then when you finish those most basic of courses in psychology, take a hard look at what you've written right here while considering everything that your denomination teaches.

And boy will I have a laugh if you respond with something akin to "I am a psychologist."
__________________
A Curious Fellow
ACuriousFellow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2023, 07:08 AM   #10
UnfilteredSkeptic
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

If there is a way to describe the situation with the local church of Witness Lee, I would apply this statement that I heard from a sermon awhile back, “You are so spiritually minded, that you are no earthly good”. I understand that this isn’t a Biblical text to expound upon or something that is or was said by Biblical author. However, for those of us who have been in this movement, it hits close to home every time. The mastery and wizardry of Witness Lee to revolutionize the basic principles of application and reading of scriptures, (never mind the specific words of Jesus himself), and to punctuate and replace all tangible, meaningful things that pertain to every human need while in this world such as love, care, natural affection, friendships, relationships etc, with some life in the mystical realm as only a way of “God’s economy or God’s heart desire”, is a travesty and abomination!

Reading and seeing so many people struggling to cope with the devastating consequences and results of this ministry, especially younger generation, should be of critical importance to the current authority in place, but they just toss those people like lab rats to the side, as if the experiment on them has failed, and they aren’t very good building material to be a part of the “Bride”. This is the time you start questioning your own sanity, and asking, “God, where are You?”! Why are these men get to use such beautiful and loving name and create such a devastating group? Your answers to these questions maybe as good as mine, “they are so spiritual minded, they are no earthly good”! When the salt loses its flavor, it’s not good for any use. I suggest for the men that run this group, to spent some time in the first four gospels of New Testament, and see what and how Jesus while in this world expressed God, and what He did everyday that we have an account of in these writings. There wasn’t much mystical about it, and people loved him for it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2023, 09:53 AM   #11
aron
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Natal Transvaal
Posts: 5,632
Default Re: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnfilteredSkeptic View Post
I suggest for the men that run this group, to spent some time in the first four gospels of New Testament, and see what and how Jesus while in this world expressed God, and what He did everyday that we have an account of in these writings. There wasn’t much mystical about it, and people loved him for it.
To your last sentence. There was a lot mystical about it, I think. "You must be born again', then look at Nicodemus' reaction. "Whaaaaa...????" A lot of that. Very obscure, challenging, and then, "they were all astonished beyond measure."

But that's not what drew people, not obscurantism and word play. He healed people. He fed people. God's love for the world was on full display not in theology but in human action. That was the magnet. They endured the weird teaching because they loved him.

In the local church we just got weird teaching. As if that was somehow what it was all about. Someone started a thread here once, "Not many Christians know" and quoted all the sayings from WL like this. How he was the only one who'd seen this or that, or knew this or that. Usually it was either some warmed-over 19th century Sunday School lesson, or something he made up on the fly.

One time I googled "Witness Lee center of the universe" and it was amazing, what turned up. I think he must have given a message on this once, and it so wowed the crowd that he did it again, with different center! That went boffo, and he did it again! But they all contradicted each other! Didn't matter, though, as long as the crowd got a buzz.
__________________
"Freedom is free. It's slavery that's so horribly expensive" - Colonel Templeton, ret., of the 12th Scottish Highlanders, the 'Black Fusiliers'
aron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2023, 02:43 AM   #12
aron
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Natal Transvaal
Posts: 5,632
Default Re: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

Quote:
Originally Posted by aron View Post
In the local church we just got weird teaching.
I apologize if my terms seem dismissive or disrespectful. I meant 'weird' in the manner that Jesus' "you must be born again" was weird to Nicodemus. It was new, challenging, strange, and difficult to process conceptually.

The forum is called Local Church Discussions and to facilitate discussions I shouldn't be so quick with terms that seem to make good copy. That may drive away people, instead of encouraging discussion amongst different mindsets. A discussion isn't a one-sided imposition of thoughts and values, or a debate where one wins and the other says, "We were wrong". Instead, it's a mutual learning opportunity. If I want others to learn from me, I have to choose words that demonstrate openness and learning behaviour.
__________________
"Freedom is free. It's slavery that's so horribly expensive" - Colonel Templeton, ret., of the 12th Scottish Highlanders, the 'Black Fusiliers'
aron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2023, 04:25 PM   #13
ACuriousFellow
Member
 
ACuriousFellow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2023
Posts: 173
Default Re: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnfilteredSkeptic View Post
If there is a way to describe the situation with the local church of Witness Lee, I would apply this statement that I heard from a sermon awhile back, “You are so spiritually minded, that you are no earthly good”. I understand that this isn’t a Biblical text to expound upon or something that is or was said by Biblical author.
Ooh, perhaps James 2:14-19?

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, "Go in peace; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18 But someone will say "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that and shudder.

Isn't Gnosticism also similar to the all of Lee's "too spiritual" mumbo jumbo?
__________________
A Curious Fellow
ACuriousFellow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2023, 04:40 PM   #14
TLFisher
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Renton, Washington
Posts: 3,562
Default Re: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnfilteredSkeptic View Post
If there is a way to describe the situation with the local church of Witness Lee, I would apply this statement that I heard from a sermon awhile back, “You are so spiritually minded, that you are no earthly good”.
I would also add in the Local Churches, Passive-aggressiveness tends to be a pervasive personality trait.
One would say the recovery is not for everyone. Yet when a brother or sister does leave, a change in attitude is transparent. An aggressive attitude.
TLFisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2023, 05:47 AM   #15
ACuriousFellow
Member
 
ACuriousFellow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2023
Posts: 173
Default Re: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

Quote:
Originally Posted by TLFisher View Post
I would also add in the Local Churches, Passive-aggressiveness tends to be a pervasive personality trait.
One would say the recovery is not for everyone. Yet when a brother or sister does leave, a change in attitude is transparent. An aggressive attitude.
I feel that, TLFisher. They're very "patient" (i.e. passive-aggressive), but when you aren't "open to the fellowship" (i.e. willing to immediately drop the issue and get over it), then they aren't so "patient" anymore and are forced to protect "the flow of life" (i.e. put you out because you're ruining the good vibes by questioning Lee's doctrines).
__________________
A Curious Fellow
ACuriousFellow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2023, 06:11 AM   #16
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnfilteredSkeptic View Post
If there is a way to describe the situation with the local church of Witness Lee, I would apply this statement that I heard from a sermon awhile back, “You are so spiritually minded, that you are no earthly good”. I understand that this isn’t a Biblical text to expound upon or something that is or was said by Biblical author. However, for those of us who have been in this movement, it hits close to home every time. The mastery and wizardry of Witness Lee to revolutionize the basic principles of application and reading of scriptures, (never mind the specific words of Jesus himself), and to punctuate and replace all tangible, meaningful things that pertain to every human need while in this world such as love, care, natural affection, friendships, relationships etc, with some life in the mystical realm as only a way of “God’s economy or God’s heart desire”, is a travesty and abomination!

Reading and seeing so many people struggling to cope with the devastating consequences and results of this ministry, especially younger generation, should be of critical importance to the current authority in place, but they just toss those people like lab rats to the side, as if the experiment on them has failed, and they aren’t very good building material to be a part of the “Bride”. This is the time you start questioning your own sanity, and asking, “God, where are You?”! Why are these men get to use such beautiful and loving name and create such a devastating group? Your answers to these questions maybe as good as mine, “they are so spiritual minded, they are no earthly good”! When the salt loses its flavor, it’s not good for any use. I suggest for the men that run this group, to spent some time in the first four gospels of New Testament, and see what and how Jesus while in this world expressed God, and what He did everyday that we have an account of in these writings. There wasn’t much mystical about it, and people loved him for it.
UnfilteredSkeptic,

Many years have I spent in the local church, under the influence of the “wise master builder”. I have developed an attitude of dismissal and almost to the point of modern day “Cancel Culture” when it comes to Christianity and others outside our group. Constantly and almost daily reminder’s in the writings of the ministry of LSM, plus countless voices of those around you, foster this culture of “who got it better than us?”. It’s only when you get out of it, it hits you like a load of bricks that there are people who actually got things to hear and consider, outside of this group.

In Proverbs 11:14 says, “Where there is no counsel, the people fall;
But in the multitude of counselors there is safety.” My realization that the people of LC, have abandoned this basic principles, and besides LSM and their lies, there is no counsel! There is no multitude, it’s ether Witness and LSM, or else! The safety net has been removed, and replaced by a barb wired electric fence, that as soon as you come near sounds a WARNING ⚠️ “You leave this ministry, you are leaving God!”. Although members of this movement will claim that there is a multitude of men in their midst that will often offer counsel, it’s the source of all of their claims and statements that stands out like a broken nose.

Michael Horton had an interesting quote, which says “Nobody goes to the Bible alone, but carries with him or her a host of influences. It is infinitely easier to distort the Word of God when we cut ourselves off from the consensus of other Christians across time and place.” There have been many posts here that document all of the things and writings, messages and talks from the blended, that precisely cut off all of the other Christians who speak today and those that came before. Why? Because it’s easier to distort, change, add and remove from Scriptures, when the people only have a single point of reference. You are correct on a lot these points you make, unfortunately the people in this movement have been trained to ignore all who speak to this issue.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2023, 06:27 AM   #17
Nell
Admin/Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,124
Default Forum membership

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
UnfilteredSkeptic,

Many years have I spent in the local church, under the influence of the “wise master builder”. I have developed an attitude of dismissal and almost to the point of modern day “Cancel Culture” when it comes to Christianity and others outside our group. Constantly and almost daily reminder’s in the writings of the ministry of LSM, plus countless voices of those around you, foster this culture of “who got it better than us?”. It’s only when you get out of it, it hits you like a load of bricks that there are people who actually got things to hear and consider, outside of this group.

In Proverbs 11:14 says, “Where there is no counsel, the people fall;
But in the multitude of counselors there is safety.” My realization that the people of LC, have abandoned this basic principles, and besides LSM and their lies, there is no counsel! There is no multitude, it’s ether Witness and LSM, or else! The safety net has been removed, and replaced by a barb wired electric fence, that as soon as you come near sounds a WARNING ⚠️ “You leave this ministry, you are leaving God!”. Although members of this movement will claim that there is a multitude of men in their midst that will often offer counsel, it’s the source of all of their claims and statements that stands out like a broken nose.

Michael Horton had an interesting quote, which says “Nobody goes to the Bible alone, but carries with him or her a host of influences. It is infinitely easier to distort the Word of God when we cut ourselves off from the consensus of other Christians across time and place.” There have been many posts here that document all of the things and writings, messages and talks from the blended, that precisely cut off all of the other Christians who speak today and those that came before. Why? Because it’s easier to distort, change, add and remove from Scriptures, when the people only have a single point of reference. You are correct on a lot these points you make, unfortunately the people in this movement have been trained to ignore all who speak to this issue.
UnfilteredSkeptic. In order to continue posting on this forum, we ask that you register for membership. The moniker "UnfilteredSkeptic" is available. Send an email with your request to Reg4LCD@Gmail.Com.

Thanks--
Nell
Admin/Moderator
Nell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2023, 10:23 AM   #18
HERn
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 969
Default Re: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
UnfilteredSkeptic,

Many years have I spent in the local church, under the influence of the “wise master builder”. I have developed an attitude of dismissal and almost to the point of modern day “Cancel Culture” when it comes to Christianity and others outside our group. Constantly and almost daily reminder’s in the writings of the ministry of LSM, plus countless voices of those around you, foster this culture of “who got it better than us?”. It’s only when you get out of it, it hits you like a load of bricks that there are people who actually got things to hear and consider, outside of this group.

In Proverbs 11:14 says, “Where there is no counsel, the people fall;
But in the multitude of counselors there is safety.” My realization that the people of LC, have abandoned this basic principles, and besides LSM and their lies, there is no counsel! There is no multitude, it’s ether Witness and LSM, or else! The safety net has been removed, and replaced by a barb wired electric fence, that as soon as you come near sounds a WARNING ⚠️ “You leave this ministry, you are leaving God!”. Although members of this movement will claim that there is a multitude of men in their midst that will often offer counsel, it’s the source of all of their claims and statements that stands out like a broken nose.

Michael Horton had an interesting quote, which says “Nobody goes to the Bible alone, but carries with him or her a host of influences. It is infinitely easier to distort the Word of God when we cut ourselves off from the consensus of other Christians across time and place.” There have been many posts here that document all of the things and writings, messages and talks from the blended, that precisely cut off all of the other Christians who speak today and those that came before. Why? Because it’s easier to distort, change, add and remove from Scriptures, when the people only have a single point of reference. You are correct on a lot these points you make, unfortunately the people in this movement have been trained to ignore all who speak to this issue.
Hi unregistered. Yes, please register as encouraged by Nell. I would like to continue reading your posts.

Best,

HERn
__________________
Hebrews 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith." (KJV Version)
Look to Jesus not The Ministry.
HERn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2023, 07:57 AM   #19
TLFisher
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Renton, Washington
Posts: 3,562
Default Re: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow View Post
Yeah, sure. Raise a kid. Tell 'em that every other denomination is deformed and degraded and that The Lord's Recovery is the only way. Make every effort to hammer that in so that they become terrified of "death" for every thought they have against Witness Lee. Teach them to devalue relationships with other Christians who follow the "low gospel." Now 99% of their deepest relationships are in The Recovery. Then they start finding out all the nasty things that you guys did. They have concerns and want to fix the problem with their fellow saints in The Recovery. What are they told? Some believers would rather meet in another place where they are more comfortable.

"If you do not like it here, you can leave."
Those of us reading ACuriousFellow's post who were raised in the Local Churches can attest to his statement. I know I can. One thing ACuriousFellow did not mention is there is a pattern of conditioning.
Having lived through all that , why would I want to raise my children in the Local Church environment? It's not healthy. That's why when asked if my children would go to Summer School of Truth, I declined. Though they think to be well-meaning, I didn't trust them to have my children's best intentions at heart.
Problems that exist in the Local Churches, those in the lead don't want change. It's been said by a late elder, "The local churches is not going to change for anybody."
TLFisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2023, 04:23 PM   #20
ACuriousFellow
Member
 
ACuriousFellow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2023
Posts: 173
Default Re: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

Have we discussed the letter from the co-workers that was written in response to Jo Casteel's letter?

I mean... I suppose it's pretty much the same thing as the "Special Fellowship" in essence, but I just wanted to make sure it's logged here.
__________________
A Curious Fellow
ACuriousFellow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2023, 10:12 PM   #21
newman263
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2023
Posts: 10
Default Re: Open Letter - Dear Saints in the Lord's Recovery - Joann Casteel

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow View Post
Have we discussed the letter from the co-workers that was written in response to Jo Casteel's letter?

I mean... I suppose it's pretty much the same thing as the "Special Fellowship" in essence, but I just wanted to make sure it's logged here.
Thank you ACuriousFellow for posting this. When I clicked on the link "letter from the co-workers", I got something like: "Are you sure you want to go to this website (link-content fully shown)?" Then, as I advanced, warning after warning it is a malicious,dangerous, malware, etc site.

I stopped, retreated at this message: (Malware blocked. Site URL : juk.au9a3rqmvg.com Malware URL :juk.au9a3rqmvg.com
Potentially malicious activity has been blocked. However, you can still safely continue to view this site while using Browser Guard.).

My (naive) question is: Was this website link posted incorrectly, or has it since been somehow hacked/compromised by an external agent?
__________________
See my My Testimony: on how one can practice standing INDIVIDUALLY on the ground of oneness, among any group, inside or outside the “Recovery”. I shall not judge (praise or denigrate) any leadership or church group, but I can and will judge their words and their works. (Matt 7:1-2; 23:3).
newman263 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:34 AM.


3.8.9