Reactions to Articles @ ShepherdingWords.Com

[Trapped]

A few more articles have appeared on the site.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Trapped

A few more articles have appeared on the site.

I read the article on women's role in the church. I have a few names to mention, many of whom are sourced and authoritatively cited within LSM literature, and even have their written works published and sold by LSM.

Elizabeth Fischbacher
Ruth Lee
Peace Wang
Dora Yu
Margaret Barber
Jessie Penn-Lewis
Mary McDonough

Where would any of these women, so instrumental to the establishment, growth and development of the Little flock, fit within the proposed structure of the article by ShepherdingWords.com?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

I read the article on women's role in the church. I have a few names to mention, many of whom are sourced and authoritatively cited within LSM literature, and even have their written works published and sold by LSM.

Elizabeth Fischbacher
Ruth Lee
Peace Wang
Dora Yu
Margaret Barber
Jessie Penn-Lewis
Mary McDonough

Where would any of these women, so instrumental to the establishment, growth and development of the Little flock, fit within the proposed structure of the article by ShepherdingWords.com?

Recently I have been researching some of the late 19th / early 20th century scholars on Wikipedia, and it's easy to see the fingerprints of LSM's editors. They constantly use Margaret Barber to connect the prominent English ministers like Govett, Panton, Darby, etc. to WN.

[ACuriousFellow]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Recently I have been researching some of the late 19th / early 20th century scholars on Wikipedia, and it's easy to see the fingerprints of LSM's editors. They constantly use Margaret Barber to connect the prominent English ministers like Govett, Panton, Darby, etc. to WN.

I noticed that they referenced a 2019 article on "turmoils." I wonder who was causing so much trouble lately that they felt the need to point back to and article from the year of Casteel and publish another at the same time where they also invoked the name of the great "rebel" John Ingalls.

Trouble in paradise?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

I noticed that they referenced a 2019 article on "turmoils." I wonder who was causing so much trouble lately that they felt the need to point back to and article from the year of Casteel and publish another at the same time where they also invoked the name of the great "rebel" John Ingalls.

Trouble in paradise?

I'm sure someone started asking "questions." You know those troublesome "???" shaped like "serpents."

Not sure if you knew this, ACuriousFellow, since it was kind of before your time, but nearly all the articles & documents written by John Ingalls, John So, Bill Mallon, Ken Unger, Don Hardy, Albert Zehr, and so many others from back in ~late 1980's were basically unknown to all of us in the Midwest before we were quarantined in the mid-2000's. Actually Titus Chu was complicit in hiding Lee Family corruption from us! During that time, there was no internet. In the mean time, all these papers got posted online and were available for the first time.

So many eye-witness accounts, both old and new, surfaced during the decade 2003-2013 on the old Bereans site and here on UntoHim's LCD Forum. LSM assumed these past "turmoils" were long forgotten. On the day I read Ingalls' account STTIL, I lost all respect for WL. I was so-called "poisoned" reading the internet. And I was not alone. Actually I was fed up with both sides by then, and decided to leave altogether.

Same scenario occurred several years ago with the Casteel letter. Folks read her account and started digging. That letter merely opened the door wide to see past corruption. That's why LSM immediately jumped into damage control. Public meetings with FTTA's and new articles online. They have to hide the past, smear Jo C. to discredit her account, and do damage control to minimize further departures. LC members can usually handle one scandal / turmoil / storm at a time, spaced a decade apart, but reading them all together online screams "FIRE" for all but the most hard core.

[ACuriousFellow]

Gives me chills just thinking about it. One guy on Reddit said that the "Special Fellowship" in which they railed on Jo Casteel was "such a sweet fellowship."

I'm so ashamed to have ever supported that sect known as The Lord's Recovery. I've read more and more of their articles now than ever before as well as Lee's writings and even the "We Were Wrong" article and I feel like they've all gone mad. They don't even want to look. Too much "death," they say.

"How can others not see this?!" I keep asking myself. "Why don't they just look?! They won't even look!!"

But then I remember that I was in it for nine years.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

Gives me chills just thinking about it. One guy on Reddit said that the "Special Fellowship" in which they railed on Jo Casteel was "such a sweet fellowship."

I'm so ashamed to have ever supported that sect known as The Lord's Recovery. I've read more and more of their articles now than ever before as well as Lee's writings and even the "We Were Wrong" article and I feel like they've all gone mad. They don't even want to look. Too much "death," they say.

"How can others not see this?!" I keep asking myself. "Why don't they just look?! They won't even look!!"

But then I remember that I was in it for nine years.

I believe the best course of action looking forward is to believe that God works all things for good because of His great love for you. You must believe that you gave your life and service to the Lord and His people, and not to some corrupt organization. He brought you to that church, and He brought you out. "Test all things hold on to the good." You have learned Christ in unique ways which have value for your own maturity and your future life.

One mature Christian counselor recommended "treasure hunting," which is to take every bad situation that comes our way, trusting that our Father has allowed it, and "hunt" to find all the good we can take away from that situation. Grace to you!

[aron]

Originally Posted by Ohio

nearly all the articles & documents written by John Ingalls, John So, Bill Mallon, Ken Unger, Don Hardy, Albert Zehr, and so many others from back in ~late 1980's were basically unknown to all of us in the Midwest before we were quarantined in the mid-2000's.

I also heard of distant rebellions, but there was really no way to find anything out. And being busy with the so-called enjoyment, I never stepped back and used my God-given brain to consider the obvious logical disconnects in front of me. For example, in Witness Lee's biography of Watchman Nee, A Seer of the Divine Revelation, there was a whole chapter devoted to female co-workers, but decades later, there were no more female co-workers...? The signs were there already. I chose not to look.

https://www.ministrybooks.org/search/

Or, typing "Fischbacher" into the search tab in LSM's 'ministrybooks' website produces something like 40 results, some showing Miss Fischbacher functioning as WN's co-worker. Or, enter "Elizabeth Fischbacher Watchman Nee" in Google search and numerous non-LSM results come up as well.

And then there's this:

Having moved to the International Settlement in Shanghai in 1926, Ni constituted in 1932 a group of “apostolic” co-workers that would lead what became the Little Flock Movement: Wang Peizhen (Peace Wang) and Li Yuanru (Ruth Lee), with Ni himself as supreme. They soon grew from a small household gathering to a network of local churches.

https://bdcconline.net/en/stories/nee-watchman

And so forth. As I said, multiple independent sources confirm these observations. Where did this idea of "apostolic co-workers" come from? There's a lot of information, both within LSM documents and without, that undercuts the positions set forth by ShepherdingWords' website. So, I suspect that SW article is a sop for internal consumption. There's no idea here that this will actually face critical scrutiny.

Instead, it says that the sisters' role is to submit, pray, shepherd young ones and sisters under guidance in brothers' decisions, and avoid gossip and negativity. Again, where's a Peace Wang or Dora Yu located, here? To mention these pillars of WN's little flock in this context might lead towards one of two conclusions: either the little flock of WN was illegitimately founded as a rebellion against God's established order, or else WL's ministry subsequently and illegitimately suppressed women.

What’s should be a big sign of spiritual abuse to those who read and frequent that site, is the total cowardly way it’s all done. These men claim to have apostolic authority, they claim to be the Gods appointed, but they are your typical religious mob, hiding under some blended body tags.

Every single time I open my Bible and read real shepherding words from any real and true apostles, I know who wrote that. In most NT cases, everyone who wrote something identified himself one way or another, so that those who read knew exactly who they were. However, this group of cowards who tag themselves as some coworkers or whatever they are, hide themselves from a responsibility and the accountability for what they put out. It’s a sick joke, an ultimate power move, and should be noted and exposed. I’m willing to bet that none of those men who write this junk, would be able to survive the scrutiny of these statements, and keep holding these positions of power anywhere or in any other walk of life.

Enough with their blended body, nameless and useless publications, people need to start seeing through this kind of charade, which is a nothing but a form of mimicry! Yes I said it out loud, they are nothingburgers, North American Nothingburgers! I know that it plays right into their PR practices, since “it’s good to be nothing, own nothing, like nothing, act like nothing”, but rather than taking this as a bulletin board materials for their next batch of articles, they should go back and edit all those articles with names and contact info for who wrote each one. I’m getting a little too optimistic here, I’ll stop. We all can have hopes and dreams of transparency and openness, especially coming from those that make these uber claims like the local churches do. One thing that I didn’t find in any of the real shepherding words from scriptures, that being knavish, astucious and gutless was part of qualifications for a “shepherd”.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

I noticed that they referenced a 2019 article on "turmoils." I wonder who was causing so much trouble lately that they felt the need to point back to and article from the year of Casteel and publish another at the same time where they also invoked the name of the great "rebel" John Ingalls.

Trouble in paradise?

I don't know. However in my opinion I do feel those at Living Stream/DCP/Church in Anaheim were scared of John Ingalls. Since John's passing there has been more liberty to talk about John from the pulpit than while he was alive.
Keep in mind since 1974 John had lived in Anaheim not far from Brookhurst Ave. Story goes there were trainees from FTTA going door knocking and they knocked on John's door. He was impressed by them. Word gets back to the trainers or a trainer and vows that will never happen again.
There's good reason for that. They're scared brothers and sisters will find out John is not the boogeyman he's been portrayed to be. Around 20 years ago one trainee I know of found that out. Instead he found John to be a minister of Christ.
In regard to Jo Casteel, I think they felt a need to gain control of the narrative. In my opinion the co-workers, elders, etc do not like to be on the defensive. Rather these so-called responsible ones desire to be the ones out front framing the narrative.

[TLFisher]

I was reading the article When Problems Arise in the Local Churches: Avoiding Two Errors.
There is much that can be said, but really can be summed up in one simple phrase:
"Do as I say and not as I do."

[TLFisher]

"This lesson applies to all Christians, both brothers and sisters, so the idea that females submit and males do not submit is a fallen concept that must be repudiated. The Bible charges us to submit to one another (Eph. 5:21) as a way to be filled in spirit and as an issue of being filled (v. 18)."

This is very true in marriage life. Submission is not one-sided. Sometimes the husband submits and sometimes the wife submits.

"The second matter that endangers the function of the sisters is gossip. Gossip kills our praying spirit, spreads death to the hearers, and annuls our ability to minister life to others. In the church life we may become aware of many affairs of the saints. If the saints’ affairs do not involve us, in principle, they are not our business, and we do not need to talk about them. Instead, we should allow the Lord to take care of the saints’ affairs. Nor should we inquire too much into the saints’ affairs when only a little inquiry is needed (133). Only after prayerful consideration before the Lord should we bring a matter concerning others to a more mature saint out of care for those involved."

When is gossip purely gossip and when is truth telling received as gossip?
This does not pertain to just sisters, but brothers too.
When a sister has a concern, who will she open to? Most likely the ones she is built up with. The concerns get back to a brother or brothers and it gets dismissed as gossip.
What do you do when these concerns is based on an immoral situation. For God-fearing sisters, to do nothing is not an option. I believe this is what happened in 1988 with the Church in Anaheim. By appearances the eldership was doing nothing and like last month's fire on the island of Maui, the fire spread too quickly within the church for the eldership to contain the situation. When brothers take their time from taking control of the situation, outrage is already in place.
I believe whenever a brother or sister has an eyewitness account of something grossly sinful, there is the expectation there is going to be action taken when they go to those in the lead. This is not just regarding the Local Churches, but any church fellowship.
I believe this may have served as an example for future dealings of immorality. Before letting the fire spread out of control, it is easier to put out of fellowship the one or ones ringing the bell of concerns.
As I said previously, gossip does not pertain to sisters, but brothers too. Late 1989 there was a series of elders meetings videotaped and a few years ago downloaded onto YouTube before being removed to claim of copyright infringement. Many of those meetings were brothers gossiping where John So was having meetings and where was John Ingalls having meetings. They were no longer meeting with the local churches, but these elders meetings exhibited so much attention where these two former elders were speaking.