Open - Interactive Letter to The Co-Workers in The Lord's Recovery

[ACuriousFellow]

Incorrect. My point is not that we do not need a physical place to worship. My point is that you have failed entirely to provide proper scriptural support for the idea that our worship is bound to the cities within which we are located. Deuteronomy 12:11 simply isn't enough for that. Period. All it establishes is that the Lord is one who chooses our place of worship. You must now present the scriptures specifically and within context to

1) support Lee's proposed naming scheme for the churches, and

2) support the idea that failing to follow this naming scheme is some grand, deadly poison to the church

Your job is provide solid scriptural support for this, and, as I will address in a later comment, Lee tries to turn a pattern into a rule where no rule is found when it comes to how the churches are named in the epistles and the book of Revelation. For now, I will address your critique of the denominations.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

Incorrect. My point is not that we do not need a physical place to worship. My point is that you have failed entirely to provide proper scriptural support for the idea that our worship is bound to the cities within which we are located. Deuteronomy 12:11 simply isn't enough for that. Period. All it establishes is that the Lord is one who chooses our place of worship. You must now present the scriptures specifically and within context to

1) support Lee's proposed naming scheme for the churches, and

2) support the idea that failing to follow this naming scheme is some grand, deadly poison to the church

Your job is provide solid scriptural support for this, and, as I will address in a later comment, Lee tries to turn a pattern into a rule where no rule is found when it comes to how the churches are named in the epistles and the book of Revelation. For now, I will address your critique of the denominations.

I'm sorry that you're upset. But it's not complicated. Just look at Acts and look at the epistles to the ONE church per ONE city that Paul was writing to. This is not a complicated scenario

It's also not hard to tell that the denominations are degraded. Look at how worldly their worship concerts are. You might not even know they're Christians unless you paid close attention the lyrics. Look at their false preachers preaching a contrary gospel of behavior modification and prosperity gospel. Look at their idolatry worship. Look at how poor they are in their knowledge of the word. Look at their unbiblical papal and pastoral system. Not hard to see my man

[Jay]

Originally Posted by Jay

I'm sorry that you're upset. But it's not complicated. Just look at Acts and look at the epistles to the ONE church per ONE city that Paul was writing to. This is not a complicated scenario

It's also not hard to tell that the denominations are degraded. Look at how worldly their worship concerts are. You might not even know they're Christians unless you paid close attention the lyrics. Look at their false preachers preaching a contrary gospel of behavior modification and prosperity gospel. Look at their idolatry worship. Look at how poor they are in their knowledge of the word. Look at their unbiblical papal and pastoral system. Not hard to see my man

Paul was not writing to all the believers in Corinth or Rome or Thessalonica who met at different denominations and different church names. In fact he specifically called out that type of thought at its roots in 1 Corinthians 1:12-13. Yet now we see any and all manner of names and titles that have divided and continue to divide the one body of Christ. How can God's body be one if they are fundamentally divided from their roots? satan has done a large work throughout the centuries surrounding this

[ACuriousFellow]

Originally Posted by Jay

I'm sorry that you're upset. But it's not complicated. Just look at Acts and look at the epistles to the ONE church per ONE city that Paul was writing to. This is not a complicated scenario

It's also not hard to tell that the denominations are degraded. Look at how worldly their worship concerts are. You might not even know they're Christians unless you paid close attention the lyrics. Look at their false preachers preaching a contrary gospel of behavior modification and prosperity gospel. Look at their idolatry worship. Look at how poor they are in their knowledge of the word. Look at their unbiblical papal and pastoral system. Not hard to see my man

Do not worry, Jay. I am not upset with you. I am being straightforward. If you are going to tell me what I said, do it properly rather than by putting words in my mouth. My text is here for everyone to see. You have no excuse for reading into what I say, and as someone who is bold enough to come onto a forum like this, I expect better from you. As a teacher, I will exhort better from you. I will prepare my final response to your initial comments as soon as I am able. It will address Lee's use of a pattern in the New Testament (how Paul refers to the assemblies) and present a rebuttal to Lee's ironic use of a pattern as a law.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

Do not worry, Jay. I am not upset with you. I am being straightforward. If you are going to tell me what I said, do it properly rather than by putting words in my mouth. My text is here for everyone to see. You have no excuse for reading into what I say, and as someone who is bold enough to come onto a forum like this, I expect better from you. As a teacher, I will exhort better from you. I will prepare my final response to your initial comments as soon as I am able. It will address Lee's use of a pattern in the New Testament (how Paul refers to the assemblies) and present a rebuttal to Lee's ironic use of a pattern as a law.

I am not attempting to put words in your mouth. In fact I don't believe I've done that at all. I'm simply using the Bible as the measuring stick. The Bible backs up the local churches and it refutes the divisions, and it's very clear

[ACuriousFellow]

Words you have put in my mouth (on record)

1) Saying that I claimed that the human spirit and the church are the same thing.

2) Saying that I claimed that we need no physical place to meet.

And you proceeded to make counterarguments based on these claims that I never made. Correct me if I am wrong, but you even seem to be assuming that I claimed that there is no degradation to be found in the churches outside of The Lord's Recovery, which is also something I never claimed.

Be careful how you proceed with debates, Jay. Take my words apart, not your strawmen. Your arguments are not uninteresting, but you must be proper in your rebuttals and address what is actually being presented and said.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by ACuriousFellow

Words you have put in my mouth (on record)

1) Saying that I claimed that the human spirit and the church are the same thing.

2) Saying that I claimed that we need no physical place to meet.

And you proceeded to make counterarguments based on these claims that I never made. Correct me if I am wrong, but you even seem to be assuming that I claimed that there is no degradation to be found in the churches outside of The Lord's Recovery, which is also something I never claimed.

Be careful how you proceed with debates, Jay. Take my words apart, not your strawmen. Your arguments are not uninteresting, but you must be proper in your rebuttals and address what is actually being presented and said.

I'm pretty sure I was talking about the Youtube channel guy when I first mentioned that. And then you started defending him. So the premise of my saying that was over him not you, but you started arguing over those points

At any rate. I'm not trying to be contentious with you. If you would like to show me where in the Bible it talks against the unique place of worship and against the concept of the local churches please be my guest......

[ACuriousFellow]

Originally Posted by Jay

I'm pretty sure I was talking about the Youtube channel guy when I first mentioned that. And then you started defending him. So the premise of my saying that was over him not you, but you started arguing over those points

At any rate. I'm not trying to be contentious with you. If you would like to show me where in the Bible it talks against the unique place of worship and against the concept of the local churches please be my guest......

Wonderful, then. So if I'm not mistaken, you're saying that those three things that I claimed you put in my mouth were actually three things you put in the YouTuber's mouth since these three points I brought up were never made by them in that video, either. Thank you for the clarification.

Anyhoo, I'll leave this tangent where it lies. You are welcome to have the final word on this micro interaction if you wish. I'll get back to you once I've finished my final response to your intial statment.

[Zezima]

Originally Posted by Jay

It's also not hard to tell that the denominations are degraded. Look at how worldly their worship concerts are. You might not even know they're Christians unless you paid close attention the lyrics…. Look at how poor they are in their knowledge of the word.

It’s important to remember that all of these denominations you think exist are filled with people that Jesus loves just as much as he loves you, and the majority of them don’t speak so critical of other believers. If God can save someone who once was dead in their sins, surely he can save a chord progression on an electric guitar. When the Bible says that He is reconciling all things to himself, it doesn’t exclude music. What does worldly even mean in the context of worship?

When Jesus was on the cross, the guy next to him was saved because of his belief, not his knowledge of the word.

There’s a saying, “you know a tree by its fruits.” Id implore you to explore what teachings are causing the production of fruit that has such a self-righteous flavor towards other believers, your brothers & sisters as it were.