The Not-So Practical Expression of the Church

[aron]

Originally Posted by Terry

Where I live there are multiple churches, assemblies, congregations etc. They vary from Baptist, Community, Prebyterian, etc. On any given Sunday I could walk into an assembly and partake of the table. The matter of the table to me is about Jesus as our Christ. If something other than Christ becomes primary to taking the table, that something is horribly divisive.

Terry

I think this is as good an answer as any to Only By Grace's question. Where do we see the "real" assembly of the called-out ones? Answer: where the saints receive one another. In the local churches where I met, we were strongly cautioned against meeting with "divisive" and "degraded" christian denominations. Some LC saints told me how for many years they had only met with the LSM-affiliated local churches. There was the unstated assumption that to meet with other groups of christians would necessitate leaving the "ground" of oneness and thus the "blessing" of God which follows.

In hindsight, I see something different. We local churchers would receive christians, and made a big point about that, but it was only to receive them on our ground. In other words, we are inclusive, we will meet with you, but only if you come to our meetings and partake after our fashion. In a nutshell, we will allow you to meet with us, but we will use this meeting as a basis to recruit you into what we deem to be the proper assembly life.

I think the 'scattered' groupings in each geographic area and population cluster can fall into the same thinking. Each group will allow others to enter the Lord's Table and break the bread and share the wine; they receive others as brethren, but are not likely to reciprocate as they are doing it the "preferred" way and we don't want to change. Usually the "right" way is dressed up with a few Bible verses so it seems like God's ordination and not man's preferences.

But it is better than the LSM model, because at least the believers CAN go to the different assemblings and fellowship. With the LSM model, the "Table of Oneness" and the "Ground of Oneness" seem to by definition exclude all the other "Tables" and "Grounds" out there. At one time it seemed to me that a stand for the "oneness" was preferred to the "divisions" in each city; now it seems more perniciously divisive, both because of the logical inconsistencies Igzy mentioned, and also because of the poisonous fruit now openly displayed. You don't see the Baptists and Presbyterians suing each other for the right to be the "Church" in some area.

What irony! We laud the departure from the monolithic RCC system 500 years ago as a rescue from God, then we endeavor to set up our own (Well, as long as I am in charge, it's good, right?).

OBG, I apologize that something so simple (believe into Jesus and receive one another) could get so horribly complicated and convoluted and full of contingencies. The fact that an "outsider" is willing to consider fellowship on an "LC" forum is a great blessing to us. Please be patient as we unravel and detoxify ourselves!

[Only by Grace]

Originally Posted by aron

I think this is as good an answer as any to Only By Grace's question. Where do we see the "real" assembly of the called-out ones? Answer: where the saints receive one another. In the local churches where I met, we were strongly cautioned against meeting with "divisive" and "degraded" christian denominations.....
OBG, I apologize that something so simple (believe into Jesus and receive one another) could get so horribly complicated and convoluted and full of contingencies. The fact that an "outsider" is willing to consider fellowship on an "LC" forum is a great blessing to us. Please be patient as we unravel and detoxify ourselves!

What a kind post...and a thoughtful apology, which I accept, though I never have personally felt an affront. But, I think I understand where you're coming from. And, thank you, aron, for receiving this outsider into your forum fellowship. Until I had friends in the LC, I'd never really heard so much talk about "receiving" one another. I have always felt "received" by other Christians. (Possibly another discussion!).

I had a post all ready and sat on it all week...trying to explain a perspective that you all kind of worked through without me. I guess my point was this: If a believer (or a group of believers) aren't guilty of thinking, believing, or speaking "I am of Paul, or I am of Apollos," then maybe the admonishment in 1 Corinthians isn't really directed at those who don't have that issue. My guess is that God is much more concerned about the condition of the hearts of those inside the building than the sign on the lawn. When Paul spoke to the believers who were saying they were of Paul, Apollos or Cephus, this was just one of many, many things that Paul was scolding and warning the Corinthians about. Could it be that there has been just too much zealous correction of perceived division? Could a little exhortation towards oneness suffice and then move on, waiting for God to convict those whom He will (and to whom the exhortation truly applies) by His Spirit, rather than by a forced unity?

So…given that no heresy is being taught in specific denominations, can’t the sign on the lawn serve more as reference point to nonessential preference -- either location, the order of service, the type of music, and of how often you might take communion per month -- rather than a sign of division? Some say division, I say preference. Real division to me is whether or not the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, as taught in scripture, has been defiled in some manner. In that case, division is a must! "Receiving" in "Christian fellowship" is not an option. Otherwise, let true believers be free to worship and gather in His name with those whom they want to gather. Receive one another whether by embracing or shaking hands over the fence…and then get down to the REAL business…which is not necessarily believers in uniformity singing Kum-ba-yah, but rather, believers from all places preaching salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ and growing up in the Lord so that we can be salt and light! Time is short. Let's love our brothers and sisters, let's love those who aren't yet our brothers and sisters. And let's join God in His work by getting that gospel out there!

I keep reading, “God isn’t happy with division.” (meaning, denominations?) Well, maybe not. But there are a multitude of other things, very serious things, that God isn’t happy about…let’s keep this one in its proper place in the big scheme of things – a parenthetical to the real subject of God’s purpose: to bring lost souls into the knowledge that Jesus saves, and to disciple new believers so that they can grow up in that knowledge and so that we can all minister to one another with the love of Christ Jesus.

Well, I just read my post and it sounds a little preachy, which was not intended. It's just my perspective is one that has never been focused on "division" or "oneness," but rather just bringing people to Jesus and helping them grow up in Him. I'll stop now. Forgive my long-windedness!

And aron, again, thank you for the sweet, reflective tone of your post. My heart is blessed.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Only by Grace

Could a little exhortation towards oneness suffice and then move on, waiting for God to convict those whom He will (and to whom the exhortation truly applies) by His Spirit, rather than by a forced unity?

That is as succinctly and clearly stated as anything that I have seen on this forum. I agree; and thanks for your perspective.

[YP0534]

Originally Posted by aron

That is as succinctly and clearly stated as anything that I have seen on this forum. I agree; and thanks for your perspective.

I also agree.