Fermentation of the Present Rebellion

[TLFisher]

I know I am beating a dead horse, but in Fermentation of the Present Rebellion, I could not recall how many times "conspiracy" was used or ifferences to a conspiracy.
This past week I had been reading in Isaiah 8.

“You are not to say, ‘It is a conspiracy!’ In regard to all that this people call a conspiracy, And you are not to fear what they fear or be in dread of it. “It is the LORD of hosts whom you should regard as holy. And He shall be your fear, And He shall be your dread.
Isaiah 8:12-13

[TLFisher]

Thanks to Indiana, following are several excerpts from The Mysteries in God's Economy as it pertains to The Fermentation of the Present Rebellion.

"During this period I was silent for another reason: I wanted to see what the Lord's hand was doing and what the mind of the Lord was. I had indeed heard enough, but I did not think I should express my opinion. That was why I was silent."
Page 11

"I spoke twice to all the elders and co-workers from different countries, once after the Thanksgiving conference and another time after the winter training. Based on the messages and fellowship in these two times, I compiled the two books The Fermentation of the Present Rebellion and The Present Situation of the Churches in the Recovery throughout the World. These two books are my clarifying and concluding word to the saints in the Lord's recovery throughout the whole world. I also prepared this clarifying and concluding word for the sake of history. The book The Fermentation of the Present Rebellion includes my spoken messages, but it's content was edited afterwards by me personally. I have carefully checked all the facts and have tried my best to be accurate, to be without any mistakes. In addition to an account of the beginning and development of the whole period of the rebellion, the content of the book includes personal testimonies from over 30 brothers. Therefore, concerning this storm, I spoken the clarifying and concluding word that I needed to speak. I have absolutely no more interest in talking about this matter. This matter now stops here. I hope that you brothers who have come to attend this conference will not mention it anymore."

Page 11

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Terry

"I have absolutely no more interest in talking about this matter. This matter now stops here. I hope that you brothers who have come to attend this conference will not mention it anymore."

Page 11

When as a single brother living in a brother's house, the eldest in the brother's house taking the lead had a saying "I have spoken it". In his joking fashion he was giving the papal decree meaning the discussion ends here. In the same manner this is what Witness Lee was saying. He did not want to be examined. In the spirit of Acts 5, some of the facts were withheld and what facts were disclosed in The Fermentation of the Present Rebellion was expected to pass as the whole. In 1997 Witness Lee was taken by the Lord. Since that time there has been opportunity to re-evluate and re-examine this period as alternative versions of the turmoils events have been available since 1990. Time has served the last sentence "I hope that you brothers who have come to attend this conference will not mention it anymore" as a type of constitutional amendment that cannot be overturned.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

"I spoke twice to all the elders and co-workers from different countries, once after the Thanksgiving conference and another time after the winter training. Based on the messages and fellowship in these two times, I compiled the two books The Fermentation of the Present Rebellion and The Present Situation of the Churches in the Recovery throughout the World. These two books are my clarifying and concluding word to the saints in the Lord's recovery throughout the whole world. I also prepared this clarifying and concluding word for the sake of history. The book The Fermentation of the Present Rebellion includes my spoken messages, but it's content was edited afterwards by me personally. I have carefully checked all the facts and have tried my best to be accurate, to be without any mistakes. In addition to an account of the beginning and development of the whole period of the rebellion, the content of the book includes personal testimonies from over 30 brothers. Therefore, concerning this storm, I spoken the clarifying and concluding word that I needed to speak. I have absolutely no more interest in talking about this matter. This matter now stops here. I hope that you brothers who have come to attend this conference will not mention it anymore."

Page 11

In the Witness Lee scheme of things, the above quotation is the final decision and last word of the high court. He has "properly" performed all the necessary duties of the prosecutor, judge, jury, and stenographer. He has determined which witnesses were allowed to speak, and what their testimony should include. He has informed us that his decision is thorough, accurate, unbiased, and confirmed by multiple witnesses. The accused were thus sentenced in absentia without possibility of an appeal.

The criminals, of course, have no legal rights. They were not permitted legal representation nor defense witnesses, neither could any of Lee's witnesses be cross-examined. The accused were not even permitted to be present at these proceedings to speak on their behalf. After the Apostle Paul appealed to Caesar, and then stood before King Agrippa, at least he was allowed to make his own defense. (Ac 26.1) Not so for John Ingalls and company. Witness Lee only used Paul's appeal to Caesar when the occasion suited him, as in his many lawsuits.

Though it is a righteous and noble undertaking, for Steve Isitt or any others to expect an honorable response at reconciliation from LSM officials is kind of like expecting the judge and the convicted murderer to kiss and make up. These judged criminals must live out their days in solitary confinement. As with lepers in Leviticus, not even their own wives should be allowed contact with them, lest they too become contaminated. Neither Witness Lee nor his Blended Bailiffs ever considered their official quarantines a personal dispute between brothers. In their distorted scheme of things, Fermentation was the definitive and official disposition of fact. It belongs as a footnote in the continuing book of Acts.

[alwayslearning]

Originally Posted by Ohio

In the Witness Lee scheme of things, the above quotation is the final decision and last word of the high court. He has "properly" performed all the necessary duties of the prosecutor, judge, jury, and stenographer. He has determined which witnesses were allowed to speak, and what their testimony should include. He has informed us that his decision is thorough, accurate, unbiased, and confirmed by multiple witnesses. The accused were thus sentenced in absentia without possibility of an appeal.

This episode in LC system history gives us a window into what Witness Lee thought of himself. He is self-appointed to play all the roles in his kangaroo court. Then like a king he gives an edict that all the elders and corkers were not allowed to discuss the matter any further. The last word has been spoken - by him and only him. This was around the same time he publicly declared that he was the only oracle of God on the earth since 1945. And yes...this is the same man who declared that he didn't control anyone or anything!

[TLFisher]

Since the 1990's I have struggled with the thought responsible brothers had not been bothered in their spirit, had no conviction how things were handled, and that Phillip Lee had no role whatsoever in the turmoil. Only to respect the "feeling of the Body".

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

Since the 1990's I have struggled with the thought responsible brothers had not been bothered in their spirit, had no conviction how things were handled, and that Phillip Lee had no role whatsoever in the turmoil. Only to respect the "feeling of the Body".

Once these so-called "responsible" brothers, who have now assumed the duties of "God's Blended Deputy Authorities," absolved their consciences of a deliberate coverup for the all the crimes of the profligate Son of Lee, a.k.a. the LSM Office Manager during the New Way, it is altogether reasonable to expect that they would have no qualms whatever about these same parties never reconciling in this life.

Without so much as a casual mention of Philip Lee in this book, how can anyone with a sane mind, even remotely knowledgeable of the circumstances surrounding the so-called "rebellion" in the late 80's led by Ingalls, Mallon, So et. al., consider Fermentation to be anything but a farce?

That's kind of like discussing the end of Richard Nixon's presidency without mentioning Watergate.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Once these so-called "responsible" brothers, who have now assumed the duties of "God's Blended Deputy Authorities," absolved their consciences of a deliberate coverup for the all the crimes of the profligate Son of Lee, a.k.a. the LSM Office Manager during the New Way, it is altogether reasonable to expect that they would have no qualms whatever about these same parties never reconciling in this life.

How much is peer pressure and how much is conviction?

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Once these so-called "responsible" brothers, who have now assumed the duties of "God's Blended Deputy Authorities," absolved their consciences of a deliberate coverup for the all the crimes of the profligate Son of Lee, a.k.a. the LSM Office Manager during the New Way, it is altogether reasonable to expect that they would have no qualms whatever about these same parties never reconciling in this life.

Without so much as a casual mention of Philip Lee in this book, how can anyone with a sane mind, even remotely knowledgeable of the circumstances surrounding the so-called "rebellion" in the late 80's led by Ingalls, Mallon, So et. al., consider Fermentation to be anything but a farce?

That's kind of like discussing the end of Richard Nixon's presidency without mentioning Watergate.

I wonder why Dan Towle and Dan Sady at DCP will not publicly Defend or Confirm their time-honored official version of church history when confronted publicly with the problematic unfiltered version of LC history. They have printing presses, speakers, writers and the global authority to condemn. Why won't they do it?


http://twoturmoils.com/DalliancewiththeDevil.pdf

[PriestlyScribe]

Originally Posted by TLFisher

I know I am beating a dead horse, but in Fermentation of the Present Rebellion, I could not recall how many times "conspiracy" was used or inferences to a conspiracy.
This past week I had been reading in Isaiah 8.

“You are not to say, ‘It is a conspiracy!’ In regard to all that this people call a conspiracy, And you are not to fear what they fear or be in dread of it. “It is the LORD of hosts whom you should regard as holy. And He shall be your fear, And He shall be your dread.
Isaiah 8:12-13

Well Mr. Fisher this week something landed in my inbox which may explain why the term Conspiracy played such a prominent role in the Fermentation Proceedings. An Oregon Pastor shared a post yesterday which points out how abusers will typically "Blow Up" if their abusive behavior is ever "ratted out" to others by a victim. I have been aware that in most dis-functional families there exists a "don't talk" rule (what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas). But this writing helped me to understand more fully why during Fermentation so much energy was devoted to proving there had been some kind of conspiracy cooked up against WL by the rebellious ones (whistle-blowers).

In my ever deepening study of personality disorders I've noticed many parallels with the infantile behavior of WL on display in the recordings of those 1989-1990 proceedings - not least of them, the extreme paranoia. However I do believe this Pastor's writing really yanked the veil back for me on WL's urgent need to "prove" the existence of a conspiracy against him and his ministry.


Here is a link to that post. The Unpardonable Sin - "You Talked About Me"

Oh, now this might get me in some kind of hot water but I did play around with the content of Pr. Crippen's post (absent his permission) in order to "MOTA-IZE" it for OUR better understanding.
Click here to listen to the result. I must admit that it did feel pretty good to whack away at that dead horse one more time...

Looking forward to your comments.

P.S.

[TLFisher]

Here is a link to that post. The Unpardonable Sin - "You Talked About Me"

Oh, now this might get me in some kind of hot water but I did play around with the content of Pr. Crippen's post (absent his permission) in order to "MOTA-IZE" it for OUR better understanding.
Click here to listen to the result. I must admit that it did feel pretty good to whack away at that dead horse one more time...

PriestlyScribe, I did some further reading at Jeff Crippen's website Unholy Charade. The RASN he uses refers to Revilers, Abusers, Sociopaths, and Narcissists. Definition of abuse used at his website is:

A habitual pattern of behaviors that proceed from a mind whose very essence and nature is a profound attitude of entitlement to unauthorized, malignant, power and control over the person or persons the abuser targets. Domestic abusers target their spouse or another individual with whom they are romantically involved. Spiritual abusers target persons in a religious setting such as a local church. Sexual abusers strive for power and control over victims for sexual exploitation. Many times these categories will overlap in one abuser.

The abuser by nature knows how to use an arsenal of psychological, verbal, or physical tactics to gain and maintain power over and control of the abuse target. It is very important to understand that perhaps even the majority of abusers do not utilize physical abuse, ie, you will never be able to find physical injuries, though even non-physical abuse eventually takes its toll upon the emotional and physical health of the person targeted.

Please note my emphasis in bold. In regard to Fermentation of the Present Rebellion, this was not a one time event. Anyone meeting with the local churches, if you talked to John Ingalls, Bill Mallon, etc would certainly spark a reaction. Probably with the question, "don't you know they're quarantined"? That doesn't even include brothers who are considered "unofficially quarantined". Who knows? One might find out these brothers are not the boogeyman the co-workers portray them to be.

Jeff Crippen said,

Never, ever will a RASN respond in sorrow, in empathy, or in repentance. Never, ever will his concern be to heal and restore the relationship. Instead, his response will be (you can count on it) rage, an intense desire to punish and exact revenge.

Isn't there "an intense desire to punish and exact revenge" today by the co-workers towards the former elders as evidenced in conferences and/or trainings? I should add most of whom have passed on, so there is no one to initiate a defamation lawsuit not that they would have ever done so while still living.

Still, these quotes provided within the context of Local Church history does not only apply to 1989-1990. Just within the last 20 years you have Nigel Tomes, Steve Isitt, and Mario Sandoval had their experiences. Was there ever a response in sorrow, repentance, or any desire to restore the relationship? Not that I am ever aware of. Something sorely lacking in the Local Churches is a ministry of reconciliation.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by TLFisher

Please note my emphasis in bold. In regard to Fermentation of the Present Rebellion, this was not a one time event. Anyone meeting with the local churches, if you talked to John Ingalls, Bill Mallon, etc would certainly spark a reaction. Probably with the question, "don't you know they're quarantined"? That doesn't even include brothers who are considered "unofficially quarantined". Who knows? One might find out these brothers are not the boogeyman the co-workers portray them to be.

Isn't there "an intense desire to punish and exact revenge" today by the co-workers towards the former elders as evidenced in conferences and/or trainings? I should add most of whom have passed on, so there is no one to initiate a defamation lawsuit not that they would have ever done so while still living.

Still, these quotes provided within the context of Local Church history does not only apply to 1989-1990. Just within the last 20 years you have Nigel Tomes, Steve Isitt, and Mario Sandoval had their experiences. Was there ever a response in sorrow, repentance, or any desire to restore the relationship? Not that I am ever aware of. Something sorely lacking in the Local Churches is a ministry of reconciliation.

As I read your post, my mind wandered all over the spectrum of the church age.
I could not help but remember so many other instances where religious leaders operated with "an intense desire to punish and exact revenge" on others they had once known or been close to. It is truly amazing how RASN men rise to power over those who love, care, and serve.

RASN men can use the most obscure verse or supposed principle to bludgeon their perceived rivals, destroying them and their reputations in the church. They manipulate the naivety of their followers into thinking they alone are “fighting the good fight of the faith,” or some such.

The first one this happened to was our beloved Savior. Did not the high priest convince them saying, “You people don’t know what you are talking about, don't you know it is better for one person to die for the people than for the whole nation to be destroyed?”